Timing!!!!

I´m curious to learn your approaches to "timing".

If one goes to the "member soundclips" of TGP one can hear various levels of playing but to me the most common problem is "timing". (even some of the players that are considered to be "monsters" - at that page - have quite weak timing I must say)

One way to get a good timing would of course be to practise licks to perfection.
Ones "improvisation" would then consist of combining these "perfect licks" in different ways.
I know that this works for a lot of people, personally I would be bored to death...

I want improvisation to be spontaneous!!!!!

One can learn music theory and practise scales and arpeggios etc, but HOW does one practise timing?

While listening to great improvisers like Chick Corea one can hear that most of us guitarists have a lot to learn about: TIMING.

I´m one for sure!

[Mullet Kingdom]

I practiced the shit out of 16th notes with a metronome for over ten years.

I stopped doing it because it's become beyond tedious at this point, but it has worked wonders for my single note/melody/soloing chops.

Make the metronome your best friend.

Originally posted by Mullet Kingdom
I practiced the shit out of 16th notes with a metronome for over ten years.

I stopped doing it because it's become beyond tedious at this point, but it has worked wonders for my single note/melody/soloing chops.

Make the metronome your best friend.

I´m sure that this helps the coordination/zyncronisation of the fingers/hands, but my approach to "timing" is wider than this.

Watched a videoclip of Eric Johnson playin "Cliffs of Dover" earlier this evening. Eric is considered to be a great guitarist - and I suppose that he is - but his timing wasn´t in place at all times during his solo.

In the word "timing" I include: the exact/precise (100%) rythm of a phrase as well as its rythmical "inventiveness" together with the technical aspects of playing.

It´s of course hard to play with 100% perfection while improvising, but I´ve never ever heard a really great sax or piano player with a poor timing...

Scott Henderson and Pat Metheney are examples of guitarists with a great timing (as I can remember it)

My intention is NOT to "pick on us guitarplayers" by saying that we are inferior musicians, I just - as I wrote in the beginning of this thread - want to know how you all approach this.

[renico00]

Metronome, metronome, metronome...

I cannot stress enough how important it is to use a metronome. Have it going whenever you are practicing. To practice or test your timing, scratch the strings on the click... if you're spot on, you will not hear the click.

If you're serious about a career, you never know when you may be in a session with only a click track. I think Vai used to walk around with one clipped to his pants. If I remember correctly, it would drive his wife nuts.

Lastly, record yourself. Start recording yourself if you're not already. Listen back and find your flaws. Listen for timing and pitch. These are the things that really separate the pros. Listening back to a recording of yourself can be eye opening. Make sure when you listen to the playback that you're detached, as in, unbiased listening.

J

[-=MYK=-]

Some solos are meant to be solos...and not rythmic guitar wanking...



I need a metronome

Originally posted by -=MYK=-
Some solos are meant to be solos...and not rythmic guitar wanking...



I need a metronome

What I´m trying to say is:
- If a solo would be reduced to just its rythm, would the rythmical ideas be totally clear?

- If clear, are they well performed?

- If clear and well performed, are the rythmical ideas created inventive and interesting?

Well, I don´t know if I make myself clear here, but I´ve got really sensitive ears for this as well as high standards...

I mentioned Chick Corea earlier as an example of a player with clear, well played and interesting rythmical ideas. Another one is the Brasilian keyboardplayer Renato Neto of "Strait Jacket".

Plays like a great great drummer!!!

[Mullet Kingdom]

If you think about it, the flaws and inconsistencies are a main component of what makes our styles unique and largely contributes to our voice on the instrument.

I don't want to hear melody that sounds like it's being played by a sequencer.

Originally posted by Mullet Kingdom
If you think about it, the flaws and inconsistencies are a main component of what makes our styles unique and largely contributes to our voice on the instrument.

I don't want to hear melody that sounds like it's being played by a sequencer.

You´re right!

I´m not at all looking for "sequencer perfection"!!!

What I´m seeking is: strong and clearly stated rythmical ideas, as well as methods for practising this.

[Antero]

Basically: If your rhythm sucks, the solos sucks. Departures from the rhythm must be intentional accents, distinctly of the kind that doesn't suck.

Personally, I think it comes from people jumping into lead guitar without becoming good rhythm guitarists first. I can't solo for beans, but I know that anything I can do is going to be grooving properly.

[al carmichael]

Sense of time. Its the heartbeat behind the music, yet how many players are there that can't demonstrate what a triplet or dotted 8th sounds like? I urge my students to understand not just note values: whole, half, quarter, eighth, 16th and 32, but also the dotted and triplet versions of these notes. Why? Because it opens up the phrase palette when putting notes together. It also helps us understand those odd sections in some songs.

I strongly urge practicing with the metronome. It builds consistent chops and imparts a sense of keeping time--both essential to fluency. A basic study in drums is not a bad idea either. Someone mentioned Chick Corea's sense of time--he was drummer before he became a keyboard player and it shows.

I agree that the variance in our sense of time is part of what gives us our unique voices as players. Sometimes the groove is not "perfect" in a strict sense. Drummers shift the feel of the beats very slightly to create certain grooves that have that extra something. So, we have to learn to adjust and adapt to their time.

But, to start out, I think its good to know how to be robot perfect, or to be able to play right on the money. After that, its easier to be aware of the shifts that do occur naturally. I've never met two drummers that play the same patterns the exact same way. In other words, begin by polishing your time as perfectly as you can. Once you can do that, its far easier to adjust to a groove, because you know what "right" is (and I use that word loosely, lol!).

Really, it doesn't take too long to understand the basics of rhythm, but its something that will improve musicianship as much as studying scales, licks and chord changes. ALl the good players have an innate sense of time, and thats a big part of why they sound so good.

[Antero]

Yeah, it's definitely a question of controlling your relation to the rhythm. Bad guitarists - even bad guitarists people think are good - go out of time because they can't keep in time. Good guitarists are always exactly where they want to be.

Bassists talk a lot about pushing the beat or playing behind the beat.. I think they understand this stuff better than most guitarists.

I encourage anyone who wants a better idea of guitar rhythm to pick up Gang of Four's album, Entertainment!. Not only is it a seminal, genius post-punk album, the rhythm section is incredible and guitarist Andy Gill has the sickest sense of rhythm ever. He can play metronome precise, but also wander away from anything resembling the beat in a way that is unbelieveably exact. He shatters the rhythm and puts it back together in hideous forms, then drops a chord precisely on the downbeat... crazy skills.

[tacorivers]

Playing with a metronome has made me a much better player. It bridges the gap between noodling around with no purpose and actually playing music. I now always try to practice with a metronome or drum machine, and my playing is much tastier.

[FUSER]

So could someone explain "dotted and triplet versions" a ittle more?


Thanks

[Antero]

Originally posted by FUSER
So could someone explain "dotted and triplet versions" a ittle more?


Thanks

Well, a dotted note is half again as long - a dotted quarter note is a quarter-and-an-eighth long, a dotted half is a half-and-a-quarter long, you get the idea.

A triplet is three notes in a space where you'd put two, basically. Swing time is triplet rhythm. Instead of

1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and

you'd have

1 and a 2 and a 3 and a 4 and a

It makes sense if you say it out loud.

[Bryan T]

I think all musicians should learn how to play the drums. It is an excellent way to come to terms with weaknesses in rhythm (especially when playing with a metronome), as well as build an awareness of more complex rhythms that can be applied to any instrument.

Bryan