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  #76  
Old 02-19-2013, 01:10 PM
westmike westmike is offline
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If what Gibson did regarding the rosewood was illegal, then why did our all-knowing currently sanctified goverment give the wood back? It wasn't about the wood per se, it was about who worked it and the US government's inability to bring criminal charges based upon basically unintelligible regulations in India regarding the export of rosewood and ebony neck blanks.

In my opinion, the fine that Gibson was forced to pay was purely CYA for the Justice Department.
  #77  
Old 02-19-2013, 01:16 PM
photoguy photoguy is offline
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What? No SWAT team decals?
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  #78  
Old 02-19-2013, 01:18 PM
JDutch JDutch is offline
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Quote:
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Painting him out to be a folk hero is JUST as misguided.
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Originally Posted by Chrome Dinette View Post
Mr. Juskiewicz, I don't use the word 'hero' lightly, but you are the greatest hero in American history.
You know this is fallacious reasoning, right? No one said that HJ is a hero. Re-characterizing someone's argument in an unfavorable light for the purposes of making it easier to attack (i.e., a "straw dog" argument) normally is used by people who can't successfully debate a topic on the merits.
  #79  
Old 02-19-2013, 01:25 PM
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Chrome Dinette Chrome Dinette is offline
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I'm just having fun, I don't care about Gibson one way or another..
  #80  
Old 02-19-2013, 01:29 PM
Cornholio Cornholio is offline
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You mean they could not get Eric Holder to sign the COA? How lame.

Good play though, although not a fan of the non gloss finish
  #81  
Old 02-19-2013, 01:34 PM
puffin puffin is offline
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You know this is fallacious reasoning, right? No one said that HJ is a hero. Re-characterizing someone's argument in an unfavorable light for the purposes of making it easier to attack (i.e., a "straw dog" argument) normally is used by people who can't successfully debate a topic on the merits.
Get off yer high horse, buddy - YOU are characterizing the government as a bully by saying you admire HJ for not taking this lying down.

The FACTS are that Gibson PAID hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines and FORFEITED hundreds of thousands of dollars in rosewood and ebony AFTER ADMITTING THAT THEY HAD PROCURED THE WOOD ILLEGALLY.

  #82  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:03 PM
SG_Seth SG_Seth is offline
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Get off yer high horse, buddy - YOU are characterizing the government as a bully by saying you admire HJ for not taking this lying down.

The FACTS are that Gibson PAID hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines and FORFEITED hundreds of thousands of dollars in rosewood and ebony AFTER ADMITTING THAT THEY HAD PROCURED THE WOOD ILLEGALLY.

You should read his post about fallacious reasoning again. And again. And again. Hopefully it will sink in.
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  #83  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:03 PM
JDutch JDutch is offline
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Get off yer high horse, buddy - YOU are characterizing the government as a bully by saying you admire HJ for not taking this lying down.

The FACTS are that Gibson PAID hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines and FORFEITED hundreds of thousands of dollars in rosewood and ebony AFTER ADMITTING THAT THEY HAD PROCURED THE WOOD ILLEGALLY.

First, settlement =/= guilt. Second, even if all of the facts are as you stated them, I find it hard to believe that people are so offended, and that they'd take so much pleasure in a company being raided and its property being confiscated, just because that corporation bought some wood then cut it. Does TPG have a large contingent of Indian rosewood farmers?
  #84  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:04 PM
SG_Seth SG_Seth is offline
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False. I'm anyone and I'll never buy a Gibson as long as Henry is in charge.
Then you are choosing to alienate yourself from the brand. Not the other way around.
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  #85  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:12 PM
puffin puffin is offline
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First, settlement =/= guilt. Second, even if all of the facts are as you stated them, I find it hard to believe that people are so offended, and that they'd take so much pleasure in a company being raided and its property being confiscated, just because that corporation bought some wood then cut it. Does TPG have a large contingent of Indian rosewood farmers?
"Straw dog", indeed.

The settlement was an admission of guilt.

If the facts are not as I stated them, please bring it to my attention.

Nobody wants an American company to suffer, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna jump on some anti-government bandwagon because Henry J f#cked-up and then whined about it.

Last edited by Scott Auld; 02-20-2013 at 07:47 AM. Reason: removed politics reference
  #86  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:21 PM
DualRectifier DualRectifier is offline
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Should have been a Les Paul, I'd have been all over it
  #87  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:22 PM
DGDGBD DGDGBD is offline
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what is everyone getting so huffy about?
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  #88  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:26 PM
Silver Silver is offline
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what is everyone getting so huffy about?
People in having different opinions shocker.


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Should have been a Les Paul, I'd have been all over it
There are Les Pauls and Explorers too.
  #89  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:29 PM
fisticuffs fisticuffs is offline
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To all you Henry supporters out there how do you reconcile your position with this:


Clearly this man is guilty of a crime even if you throw out the one the raid was about.
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  #90  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:34 PM
puffin puffin is offline
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Re: Huffiness...

The spiel in the OP's link suggests that the government returned the wood it seized from Gibson in 2011, presumably because the government had no case:

"Grab a guitar destined to be a collectible with the limited-edition Gibson Government Series SG solidbody electric guitar. In August of 2011 the US Government raided the Gibson factory in Nashville and seized a large amount of wood. The seized wood, mostly rosewood, was eventually returned..."

In fact, Gibson forfeited hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of rosewood and ebony, in addition to paying hundreds of thousands in fines.

Just illuminating the lie that Gibson, or Sweetwater, are perpetuating...there certainly is a market that wants to hear what they are peddling.
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