Poor man's SM57?

[atomheartmother]

What about the Lo Z vs Hi Z thing?

I have a Lo Z XLR cable that I'll use to run from the mic to the mixer. But would I need a Lo Z or Hi Z to run from the mixer to the sound card of my computer? I can only find Hi Z XLR to 1/4" cables. Does it really matter if it's Hi or Lo?

[MichaelK]

This is why I sometimes get ticked off with stupid questions (and there ARE stupid questions). My personal definition is either (A) a question to which you already know the answer, or (B) a question to which you don't really want an answer.

This definitely falls into the latter category.

First thing you say is you want a "decent mic."

Later: "Everything else in the recording process is crap," so you don't see the point in buying "a mic that might sound marginally better."

Later: "...quality does matter... I don't want it to sound like crap..."

Now you let us in on the secret that all these mics only cost a buck to make, so one can't possibly be much better than another. But how about these? How do they compare? You've read "great reviews" of them.

I think you summed up your position admirably with this line: "I don't really care if it is as good as an SM58; as long as it approximates the quality of one."

And by the way, you feel your music is comparable to "a turd."

When you give a flying f*ck about the questions you ask, I might give a flying f*ck about answering them.

[atomheartmother]

Originally Posted by MichaelK

This is why I sometimes get ticked off with stupid questions (and there ARE stupid questions). My personal definition is either (A) a question to which you already know the answer, or (B) a question to which you don't really want an answer.

This definitely falls into the latter category.

First thing you say is you want a "decent mic."

Later: "Everything else in the recording process is crap," so you don't see the point in buying "a mic that might sound marginally better."

Later: "...quality does matter... I don't want it to sound like crap..."

Now you let us in on the secret that all these mics only cost a buck to make, so one can't possibly be much better than another. But how about these? How do they compare? You've read "great reviews" of them.

I think you summed up your position admirably with this line: "I don't really care if it is as good as an SM58; as long as it approximates the quality of one."

And by the way, you feel your music is comparable to "a turd."

When you give a flying f*ck about the questions you ask, I might give a flying f*ck about answering them.

No offense, but you've got some real issues, dude. Perhaps you should refrain from posting in this thread. Anyone who gets as passionately upset as you without being provoked or insulted must have a complex of some sort. I don't know about you, but this stuff isn't my entire life. I'm not that sad.

I think your real problem is that there is only one ANSWER that YOU want to give or to be given. Just because you and a few others don't agree that there are cheaper mics that will be good for me and that an SM57 is the only way to go, it doesn't mean that all others in this entire forum share the same opinion. Perhaps there are others who have had positive experiences with cheaper mics and can give some insight, which you cannot.



Anyway, I thought you guys knew your stuff about recording and mics and stuff? Yet NO ONE can tell me the difference between Lo Z and Hi Z, and how I know which cable I need (Hi or Lo). Do I need to make another thread with a title in all caps?

[toddyjoe]

Originally Posted by atomheartmother

Anyway, I thought you guys knew your stuff about recording and mics and stuff? Yet NO ONE can tell me the difference between Lo Z and Hi Z, and how I know which cable I need (Hi or Lo). Do I need to make another thread with a title in all caps?

"Z" is impedance, so "Lo Z" and "Hi Z" are low impedance and high impedance. High impedance is often an instrument signal like a guitar, where mixers and mics like the SM-57 are often low impedance devices. Mixing and mis-matching low and high impedance sources and inputs can give crummy results, so you want to match Z between sources and inputs whenever possible. You need to figure out what the output impedance is for each of your sound sources and what impedance input and output options you have on your mixer and soundcard. Match output and input impedance and use appropriate cords between similar impedance connections. You dig?

[atomheartmother]

Originally Posted by toddyjoe

"Z" is impedance, so "Lo Z" and "Hi Z" are low impedance and high impedance. High impedance is often an instrument signal like a guitar, where mixers and mics like the SM-57 are often low impedance devices. Mixing and mis-matching low and high impedance sources and inputs can give crummy results, so you want to match Z between sources and inputs whenever possible. You need to figure out what the output impedance is for each of your sound sources and what impedance input and output options you have on your mixer and soundcard. Match output and input impedance and use appropriate cords between similar impedance connections. You dig?

The mixer has a Hi/Lo switch on the back for each channel, including the mic output (which will be connected to the sound card via a XLR-1/4" cable). Does that help? I imagine that the mic will be Lo, so I'll use the Lo cable that I have lying around. So would I need a Lo XLR-1/4" cable to run from the back of the mixer to the soundcard? I have no idea as to whether or not the sound card is Lo or Hi, and I have no idea on how to check.

[smallbutmighty]

You can buy an impedance converter for microphones. Looks like a curly little pig tail with an XLR mic plug on one end and a 1/4 inch on the other. They cost about $20...roughly 2/3 of the cost of your mic....

A

[atomheartmother]

I don't know if anyone is familiar with this particular mixer, but you guys should still know better than me: Could I use an RCA to 1/8" cable to run from the High Impedane auxillary output (RCA) to the input on my soundcard?

Or would it be better to run a XLR cable with a XLR to 1/4" adapter and then 1/4" to 1/8" adapter on top of that from the mic output (hi or lo selectable) to the input on my soundcard?

Mixer:

http://www.shure.com/pdf/discontinued/m68.pdf

RCA:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...les?sku=333055


1/4" deal:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...les?sku=361707
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...les?sku=339525
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...les?sku=333092


There is also this cable. It's low resistance, but doesn't sat Hi or Lo Z. So should I assume it is Lo Z? What is TRS cable?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...les?sku=336972

[neve1073]

Originally Posted by Aaron Cheney

I actually found that to be pretty cool.

A

And I actually meant it! Konono/Congotronics is genius. And they make their own instruments and mics.

[neve1073]

Originally Posted by atomheartmother

What makes a $100 SM58 that much better than a comparable $20 Behringer (a lot of folks seem to think they're just as good)? I mean, mics are pretty damn simple tools. They probably cost $1 to make. Would there be enough difference in quality between the two FOR ME to justify spending five times as much?

It seems like you already have the answer to your own questions.

[Aldwyn]

Why not try this:

Buy an el cheapo mic and an SM57 mic from Musicians Friend. A/B the two mics... record the same passage in the same way with the exact same parameters/setup twice... once using the 57 and once using the el cheapo.

Compare the two recordings.

If the SM57 sounds better, keep it. If the el cheapo sounds better, send the SM57 back.

Problem solved!

But from experience I can tell you that most lower cost mics will color your sound. You may not hear it now, but as your ear becomes trained with more recordings, you will hear it later.

Peace,
Aldwyn

[Tone_Terrific]

You can get "decent" guitar and vocal recordings from almost any dynamic mic. The Behringer is probably quite reasonable. Just connect it to the xlr input and run the Hi-impedance cable out to your soundcard with an appropriate connector. Watch the levels.

The subtle tonal colors and dynamic response may suffer in direct comparison to anything that costs over $3000. Nobody will notice.

[slhguitar]

Im gonna agree with this^^^. I have done recordings of acoustic guitar using the dynamic mic that came with my computer, and it wasnt as bad as it should have been. Definately watch your input levels, and as long as nothing is clipping, I'm sure no one who is using your recordings to learn guitar will notice. Radio Shack/ The Source has a couple mics around the $15 range, and I once bought 3 behringer mics for $60 (Can.) So, there are definately things in your price range that will do what you need. Good luck with the recordings.

[headstack]

The guy wants a cheap decent mic and you post these babies???
The original mics for high rollers!!!

Originally Posted by fyler

[co-intelpro]

Originally Posted by MichaelK

This is why I sometimes get ticked off with stupid questions (and there ARE stupid questions). My personal definition is either (A) a question to which you already know the answer, or (B) a question to which you don't really want an answer.

This definitely falls into the latter category.

First thing you say is you want a "decent mic."

Later: "Everything else in the recording process is crap," so you don't see the point in buying "a mic that might sound marginally better."

Later: "...quality does matter... I don't want it to sound like crap..."

Now you let us in on the secret that all these mics only cost a buck to make, so one can't possibly be much better than another. But how about these? How do they compare? You've read "great reviews" of them.

I think you summed up your position admirably with this line: "I don't really care if it is as good as an SM58; as long as it approximates the quality of one."

And by the way, you feel your music is comparable to "a turd."

When you give a flying f*ck about the questions you ask, I might give a flying f*ck about answering them.

You must admit, he does have a point. Your logic is fallacious, at best. You deal in generalities, and not particulars. You are hopelessly vague and butt heads with those who know more about the subject than you do. It seems that you will ultimately, and thanklessly, 'buck' the advice you get, if it is not the advice you want to hear- this is a sign of true inmaturity and a total disregard for those who know more than you do (which contrdicts the fact you asked for advice in a forum of experienced musicians and engineers, in the first place). Go back to Guitargeek, or HC...where you belong...

However, I know what you are after, and I understand having a tight budget. I would seriously suggest trying to find a used shure mic, and they go for considerabley less than the cost of new ones. There is nothing wrong with using a used mic, unless it is broken. If you have something against doing this, than perhaps YOU have serious psychological issues...perhaps you like to 'slum' it? Or, more likely, you are a lazy and an impatient SOB.

That said, if you are not going to take my advice, DON'T go to radio shack and buy a 'turd polishing' mic...Good luck!

[headstack]

Originally Posted by atomheartmother

What about the Lo Z vs Hi Z thing?

I have a Lo Z XLR cable that I'll use to run from the mic to the mixer. But would I need a Lo Z or Hi Z to run from the mixer to the sound card of my computer? I can only find Hi Z XLR to 1/4" cables. Does it really matter if it's Hi or Lo?

I think you are confusing balanced with unbalanced. An xlr to 1/4" TS (tip/sleeve) is balanced to unbalanced (the XLR is typically a balanced config)
an XLR to 1/4" TRS (tip/ring/sleeve) is balanced all the way (we hope it's constructed correctly).
If you'r mixer has XLR inputs for the mic pres it will be balanced and LO-Z
As for the input to your soundcard? What sound card do you have? What does the manual detail in the specs?
If it is unbalanced and LO-Z you can get a standard xlr cable (if that;s the mixers output) and a LO-Z (XLR) to HIGH-Z (1/4" TS) from Radio Shack. If I remember correctly, they are about $15 a pop. It looks like a 1/4" connector on the end of a silver tampon (forgive the reference).

Lo-Z (600 ohms) HIGH-Z (10,000 ohms or 10k ohms)

As for the mic?
A 57 is the quintessential guitar mic and a bulletproof bargain to boot.
You can get a mic from Radio Shack if you like as well. They make mics that are HIGH-Z to begin with and they even have some with a switch to mute the output (junk for my taste) and they carry LO-Z mics too.
If you are comparison shopping, you will find there are many differences to mics sound (color) and some of them are not palatable, some are.

You folks are getting a bit out of hand with this thread and it's author is asking a valid question. However, he also got several valid answers.

I have rewired and maintained several Multi million dollar studios as well as engineered in them. I have very esoteric tastes in mics and most of what I like is $$$$ Yeow!! However, there's nothing like messing with a low cost mic and seeing what you get. However as you say, "my gear is not great" does not always equate. I think a great mic can sound okay with crap gear. You also have to consider that the cheapies are not very robust and might not last very long unless you baby it. So, buying a cheapie twice might be more expensive than the used 57 or 58.
JMO Take it or leave it