Become a Supporting Member


Go Back   The Gear Page > The Gear > Amps and Cabs

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-26-2006, 05:40 AM
kgmessier kgmessier is offline
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Red Sox Nation
Posts: 238
Question Mesa Black Shadow Speakers

Hi,

What can y'all tell me about Mesa's Black Shadow 12" speakers? How are they in and of themselves, and how do they compare to Celestion Vintage 30s?

- Keith
__________________
Guitars
LP Standard, SG Classic, G&L ASAT Classic S, MIM Fender Strat, MIM Fender Tele, Kramer Focus 3000
Amps
Celtic Caitlin (tweed Tremolux clone), Vox AC30 RI, Fender Super Reverb RI, Mesa Single Rec head,
Vox Valvetronix AD100VTH head, Mesa 2x12 cabs w/ V30s
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-26-2006, 08:45 PM
lespauldude lespauldude is offline
Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: St.Louis,Mo. USA
Posts: 146
They are 90 watt Celestions, and I believe one of the few still made in the Enland factory (from what I've heard). I have them in a Mesa open-back 2-12 cab, and the sound fantastic. The sound better than the V-30's in another cab that I have, IMO.
__________________
Gibson Les Pauls
K-Line S
Budda Amps
cool pedals

www.gravitystrings.com
www.myspace.com/gravitystrings
www.myspace.com/musclecarsfrommars
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-26-2006, 09:40 PM
SFW SFW is offline
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,301
THe C90 is by far my favorite speaker.
__________________
Life is too short for bad tone.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-27-2006, 12:38 AM
kgmessier kgmessier is offline
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Red Sox Nation
Posts: 238
Is "C90" synonymous with "Black Shadow"?
__________________
Guitars
LP Standard, SG Classic, G&L ASAT Classic S, MIM Fender Strat, MIM Fender Tele, Kramer Focus 3000
Amps
Celtic Caitlin (tweed Tremolux clone), Vox AC30 RI, Fender Super Reverb RI, Mesa Single Rec head,
Vox Valvetronix AD100VTH head, Mesa 2x12 cabs w/ V30s
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-27-2006, 02:48 AM
John Phillips John Phillips is offline
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,114
No. Confusingly, Mesa call all their custom speakers 'Black Shadows'. It's been put on EVs, Celestions (though not the V30 for some reason, even though their version is no longer the same as the standard one) and Eminences.

It's based on Celestion's old G12-80 model from the 1980s - as is the Classic Lead 80, but the MC90 and CL80 aren't the same thing and don't sound the same (or the same as the old 80).

The MC90 is also my favorite speaker. It's very even, chunky-sounding and defined, without the upper-mid peak like the V30. The low end is deeper, the top end clearer and if there is a peak it's in the lower mids. It's definitely not a 'sweet' vintage-sounding speaker but IMO it works really well for most styles while maybe not being the definitive one for any, if that makes sense.
__________________
John P
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-27-2006, 04:51 AM
kgmessier kgmessier is offline
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Red Sox Nation
Posts: 238
Makes perfect sense to me, John. Thanks!

BTW, I'm assuming "CL80" stands for "Classic Lead 80." Is that correct? Also, what does "MC90" stand for, and are the "80" and "90" each respective speaker's wattage rating?

- Keith
__________________
Guitars
LP Standard, SG Classic, G&L ASAT Classic S, MIM Fender Strat, MIM Fender Tele, Kramer Focus 3000
Amps
Celtic Caitlin (tweed Tremolux clone), Vox AC30 RI, Fender Super Reverb RI, Mesa Single Rec head,
Vox Valvetronix AD100VTH head, Mesa 2x12 cabs w/ V30s

Last edited by kgmessier; 06-27-2006 at 05:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-27-2006, 08:06 AM
John Phillips John Phillips is offline
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13,114
Yes, Mesa/Celestion and yes, in that order .

The interesting thing is that not only is Mesa's speaker 10W higher-rated than the CL80 and the G12-80 it was based on, their (also still UK-made) Vintage 30 is as well - 70W not 60. Original V30s were rated at 70 too. I've heard that the difference is due to the cone doping or a different type of glue used - which would make sense, if it's a bit more heat-resistant - but whatever, these Mesa speakers don't sound the same as the regular Chinese-made Celestions... IMO they're much better.
__________________
John P
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-27-2006, 09:01 AM
8lbs8k 8lbs8k is offline
New Member
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 27
John P, your posts are always extremely informative and useful. Thank you.

Are the MC90s as efficient/sensitive as V30s? I ask because I have a JTM45 clone that sounds best through (my girlfriend's) little open-back mesa cab w/ v30s. I want to pick one of these cabs up but I've been holding out for one with v30s. For the tone, sure, but mostly for the volume and the mid peak. For this particular application, anything quieter or much flatter wouldn't really cut it. There's plenty of Black-Shadow-equipped ones floating around, but few with v30s and if the Black Shadows would do the job, I could save myself time and money. A bump in the low mids might be just as good as the v30s' bump in the upper mids for my purposes.

Thanks!!
__________________
3Ts!!!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-27-2006, 10:55 AM
orangekick orangekick is offline
Supporting Member
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 408
I have a 4x12 with 2 MC90's and 2 V30's in it. I'm thinking of ditching the V30's because I tend to mic the MC90's instead of the V30's. The 90's also just sound better to my ears, not as "stabby."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-27-2006, 11:52 AM
Timbre Wolf's Avatar
Timbre Wolf Timbre Wolf is offline
Gold Supporting Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 6,230
I've had Mesa's C90 Black Shadows in several Boogie cabs I've used over the years, starting in the early '90s. First in a couple of Satellite combos, then in the top of a 4x12 (with the 200W EV "Black Shadow" speakers for the bottom two 12's), and then in two wide-body 1x12s.

In my experience, they are best suited for players who run their cabs very, VERY loud! Here's why: they've got rolled off high and low frequencies, so they're suited to what our ears like to hear at high volume (can you say Fletcher-Munson?). The EVs provided the tight lows and brighter highs that the C90s did not, but they sure made my 4x12 heavy.

A few years ago, I replaced the C90s in my stereo pair of widebody 1x12s (semi-open back). I put a WeberVST Silver Bell in one, and noted the auspicious increase in midrange clarity, with tighter, fuller low end. Then replaced the other with a Weber Blue Dog, and noted the sweet upper-mid clarity that I'd never experienced with the C90s. I'm playing with much less buzzy distortion now than I did in my youth, and the C90s don't work as well as the Webers for the clear, articulate cleans and more mild overdrive sounds I use these days.

I've sold my C90s, and wouldn't go back. But I still might recommend C90s for Boogie's high gain sounds (especially if using stock tubes) - just make sure to play 'em LOUD to get the best out of them.

- T
__________________
"I don't play guitar. I play amplifier."
~ Jinx
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-27-2006, 11:58 AM
LSchefman LSchefman is offline
Supporting Member
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,438
I'm also a fan and user of the Black Shadow 90. It's edgy enough for rock and roll but still ok for other styles.
__________________
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - J.Lebowski
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-27-2006, 12:53 PM
Doug Doug is offline
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 818
The CL80 in my Bogner Shiva 1 X 12 combo had some serious cone cry. Bogner/A-Plus Guitars sent me a Black Shadow 90 to replace it with. Big difference, no more cone cry and sounds great. Thanks guys!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-17-2008, 08:13 AM
kmanick kmanick is offline
Supporting Member
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Boston Ma.
Posts: 212
I've got an Avatar 2X12 traditional cab I bought empty and loaded it with C90's. I run together with my recto 2X12 cab. I like the mix of them together.
the C90 is definitely smoother than the V30 has a bit more bottom end and more treble to it than the V30 (mesa's V30's).
I agree with timbre_Wolf, the more juice you feed into these speakers the better they sound. at low volume I prefer my recto cab, but when I turn up the C90's really start to kick. When playing loud both cabs together (thru my Mark III) give me a real thick heavy tone but still nice and sharp and chunky sounding.
I'd love to try on of those old EVM black shadows that they originally sold with the mark series combos. I'd like to hear what the difference is.
__________________
AxeFx II -> MFC-101->Atomic CLR NEO->Seismic SAX-15->Mesa Mark IV(B)->Recto 2X12
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-17-2008, 09:22 AM
jaycee jaycee is offline
Senior Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Boston
Posts: 6,424
I have an F50 combo with the MC90 and an avatar cab with the hellatone 60. Two very different sounding speakers combine for a nice big sound!
__________________
It might look like i'm doing nothing but at the cellular level i'm really busy.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-17-2008, 09:38 AM
3 Mile Stone's Avatar
3 Mile Stone 3 Mile Stone is offline
Gold Supporting Member
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New Braunfels Texas
Posts: 4,484
Mesa C90 = great speaker. Used those for many many years. pretty much what everybody said. They do a good job if you need a small cab to get a big sound.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©1999-2014, The Gear Page, LLC, Brian Scherzer
All rights reserved.
Banner Design: Chris Sileo