Just how similar are the JJ 6v6s to 6L6s?

[tjs]

I recently picked up a Frenzel Deluxe Plus (sort of the bastard child of a Bassman and a tweed deluxe) that can run any octal power tube without rebiasing. I've been using 6L6s so far and while the cleans are decent, the cranked tones leave much to be desired. I'm thinking that 6v6s might be the way to go.

I've heard that the JJ 6v6s sound similar to 6L6s, and I'm wondering: just how much like 6L6s do they sound? What do they sound like when driven? Is there any advantage to using them in an amp that is already capable of running 6L6s?

[r9player]

blah I unfortunately don't remember if I ever used JJ 6V6s .. but to me they sounds quite different, 6V6 always sounded a bit 'darker' to me and I never liked the cleans I got from 6V6 until I got some Brimars. As far as cranked tones. If you don't like 6L6 cranked I'd say you should try EL34s vs. 6V6 because to me the EL34s cranked give a very different 'spectrum' then 6L6 or 6V6.

[tjs]

Originally Posted by r9player

blah I unfortunately don't remember if I ever used JJ 6V6s .. but to me they sounds quite different, 6V6 always sounded a bit 'darker' to me and I never liked the cleans I got from 6V6 until I got some Brimars. As far as cranked tones. If you don't like 6L6 cranked I'd say you should try EL34s vs. 6V6 because to me the EL34s cranked give a very different 'spectrum' then 6L6 or 6V6.

Actually, I like 6L6s cranked in some amps; just not this one. It could just be that the amp's a dud, but I'm hoping that the 6v6s might be a little less harsh while still retaining the Fender-ish vibe of the amp.

[Fenderosa]

Which brand of 6L6s are you using? I have used the TAD small bottle 6L6 and find they have a different breakup than Svetlana or JJ's. I find them to have a midier sound.

[Fretts]

The TADs sound a lot like 5881s to me, which is to say, sooner breakup, a softer kind of tube rather than harder. I would put the JJ 6V6 between a TAD 6L6 and a 5881.
If you know the Scumbag amps, they are all 6V6.

[tjs]

Originally Posted by Fretts

The TADs sound a lot like 5881s to me, which is to say, sooner breakup, a softer kind of tube rather than harder. I would put the JJ 6V6 between a TAD 6L6 and a 5881.

So the spectrum would look something like this?


harder............................................ .......................softer

(6L6s in general).........TAD 6L6s..........JJ 6v6s............(5881s in general)

[tjs]

Originally Posted by Fenderosa

Which brand of 6L6s are you using? I have used the TAD small bottle 6L6 and find they have a different breakup than Svetlana or JJ's. I find them to have a midier sound.

I'm currently using EH 6L6s.

I think my biggest problem with the amp at this point is that it just lacks character. It doesn't have the snarl of a Bassman, the bluesy grit of a tweed deluxe, or the smoothness of a blackface deluxe. It just sounds like a generic (and uninspiring) "Fender-ish" amp.

I don't know much about amp design, but I'm thinking that part of the problem might be that the amp is running two 6L6s, but is only putting out 25 watts of power - a level that is normally associated with a 2x 6v6 amp. Although there have been some very good amps that run two 6L6s at around that output level (the Carr Rambler comes to mind), my guess is that this one might be better suited for 6v6s, particularly since its design was originally derived from a 5E3. I'm hoping that switching to 6v6s might coax a bit more of a Deluxe vibe from the amp.

[redtoploader]

Could be that the output transformer Z is more suited to a different tube, IE 6v6's rather than 6l6s. Those tubes have different plate load characteristics , *generally speaking* you want 4k for a pair of 6l6, 8k for a pair of 6v6.....a mismatch will definitely change the sound- sometimes for good and sometimes bad, depending on the listener!

Could be the 6l6's too, fixed biased or cathode? Could be biased too cold, or could just be icky sounding tubes.

[Texasamp]

The reissue Tungsol 5881's a nice. Small bottle and great smooth breakup in my 64 Vibroverbs or any of my AB763 BF amps.

The JJ's are known for their capability to handle 500VDC on the plates. My Princeton Reverb has a B+ of 425vdc using a Mercury Magnetics PT which give very high ac voltages off the HV taps on the secondaries.

Good luck,
Darrell,
Texas Amplification

[jmadill]

Another Frenzel owner! I have the Champ Plus model.

Just last night I was fiddling with different tubes. The EH EL34 was sounding a bit weak, so I swapped the GT EL34 in, and it was a bit more powerful and richer. I also tried a GT 6L6, but didn't like that at all. I'm planning to try a 6V6 tonite and see what that brings.

So far, though, the GT EL34 sounds the best to my ear, especially with the "M" mode switch on.

-jm

[thor666]

I have the Frenzel 5e3 as well, and yes, I do find that I can't crank the amp at home as the breakup seems to be quite late. I do like the cleans though; they are lacking in character but that's what I like about it - a very straightforward clean tone that needs no reverb or any processing and sounds good plugged straight in.

I asked Jim Frenzel before - if you want to get close to a Marshall Plexi tone, try switching to KT88s or EL34s and pull out the presence control knob to engage the NNFB switch.

Cheers
Raymond