K&K Pure Western and LR Baggs IBeam Any Cons?

[lchyi]

Anyone heard anything BAD about these pickups? Both are easy to install, sound great, and pretty discrete. I have read the thumbs way up on a lot of forums. Is there anyone who has beef with these two?

Also, I have heard some great stuff about the new IMix from LR Baggs and I've played some great B-Band setups anyone opt for that one instead?

(sorry mods, this is totally the wrong forum for this, can it be moved to the acoustic one please?)

[r9player]

Haven't heard anything bad .. personally love the i-BEAM

[clothwiring]

I have a Pure Western Mini in my Alvarez Yairi and am very happy with it. Direct recording is pretty good as well!

[smallbutmighty]

I have the K&K in my Taylor 514 C. No complaints. Sounds like a pickup...but then it is.
A

[BatChainPuller]

I have both. The I Beam is in a little Gibson L-00. Turns out that the bridge plate is too small in that guitar for the IBeam to have been installed the correct way. It doesn't sound bad, but definitely not great. Plus, I don't like the idea of having a battery. The K&K is in an old Guild OM-style. It's the full sized one. It sounds absolutely fantastic, but when I was in the studio making our most recent record, we got some pretty strange sounds (and not good ones) when we ran it direct. It does seem to work fine through a PA or acoustic amp, though. I've since found out that the Pure Western Mini is the way to go all the time. I'm about to commission a handmade jumbo, and I'll probably go with the K&K Mini.

[jbgordon]

I would go with the K&K personally. I think its the most natural sounding pickup that I have ever tried. Has the closest reproduction of the original tone that I have heard.

[daddyo]

I have an iBeam passive in my Larrivee and a K&K Classical in my Aria classical. They both sound good but the passive iBeam requires a preamp. I use a ParaDI. They make an active iBeam that has a 9v battery hanging in a little bag inside the guitar. The K&K doesn't need a preamp. The iBeam was a lot easier to install as they give you a jig and it uses double sided sticky tape. The K&K has to be installed by hand, 3 separate contacts. You can use tape but K&K recommends superglue. I used superglue and latex gloves so I didn't glue my pickup to my hand. The consensus at most acoustic guitar sites is that the K&K is a better sounding pickup. They both suffer from boominess and feedback in high volume situations. I use a rubber soundhole plug. Harmony Central has some good reviews on both of these. The acoustic reviewers tend to be more mature.

[jspax7]

Originally Posted by Aaron Cheney

I have the K&K in my Taylor 514 C. No complaints. Sounds like a pickup...but then it is.
A

What are you using for a preamp?

I've found the onboard Fishman to be unsuitable due to an impedance mismatch.

I'm hoping there is a fix for this, as K&K doesn't have an onboard replacement for the Fishman.

BTW, I have a Pure Western in my Taylor 314CE. Very natural sound, but the lack of onboard control is a drag....

[Jake]

I had an active iBeam in an Omega and found it to be a bit boomy in that guitar. Placement can be more important in some guitars than others and after trying it in 5 different spots I took it out and went with a B-band UST. I now have B-bands in all of my acoustics, some UST and some with both a UST and AST. I've heard iBeams that sounded great, but as I said, placement was very finicky. This was an early model. Don't know if they changed it.

I've also had the K&K and found it to be a great sounding pickup as well. I prefer it to the iBeam, but not the B-bands. Personal taste.

Both the iBeam and the K&K benefit greatly from an external EQ to manage feedback, even if you go with an active unit. Save yourself some money and buy the passive and a Baggs Para-Acoustic DI. Best bang for the buck preamp unit out there.

[rhys]

I've got both the IMix and a K&K passive and I'd go with the iMix all day long. HAving the ability to balance the woodiness of the ibeam with the zing of the element makes for the best amplified acoustic sound I've ever gotten. (An active K&K trinity would be more comparable to the iMix and I haven't heard the trinity.)

I also use the paraDI and it's great.

[Den]

Originally Posted by rhys

I've got both the IMix and a K&K passive and I'd go with the iMix all day long. HAving the ability to balance the woodiness of the ibeam with the zing of the element makes for the best amplified acoustic sound I've ever gotten. (An active K&K trinity would be more comparable to the iMix and I haven't heard the trinity.)

I also use the paraDI and it's great.

+1 on the iMix. I have it in my Goodall (on the recommendation of James Goodall) and it really gives you a lot of flexibility to dial the blend of the two pickups to meet your needs. When I'm going louder, I blend in more Element which gives me more volume before feedback and allows the the guitar to cut through a louder band mix. At lower volumes ... solo or duo stuff ... I blend in more of the IBeam for a "woodier' tone. Having the blend control and preamp on-board is great.

I've never tried the K&K ... but based on what I've heard, that would be my second choice.

[62Tele]

I also have both - a recently installed K&K Pure Western Mini in my Collings CJ and an I-Beam active that has been in both my J-45 and my Collings OM. The OM will soon have a K&K.
My two cents;

1) the I-beam is a very good sounding pickup and up until recently my favorite. Like all pickups, it benefits from a little EQ. The I-beam is a very good choice for moderate volumes but can get problematic feedback issues at band volumes. Placement is very critical - moving the sensor just alittel can really change the tone.

2) the K&K has won over myself and everybody locally who has heard it. A luthier in my town, who has also been an I-Beam fan, put several Pure Western Minis into very different instruments and they all sounded great - he is so smitten with the K&K he has become a dealer. For me, it's the best acoustic sound I've ever achieved/heard short of a condenser. I run mine through a Carl Martin parametric EQ pedal (don't let the last word fool you - the thing is rack quality and incredibly useful) and it works as good as I could hope for - the addition of a pre-amp isn't necessary but it really enhances the tone if the input impedance is correct. The pickup is more feedback resistant than the I-beam. Go with the super glue mount - it CAN be removed without damage to the instrument and there are meaningful gains in tone and output.

Any soundboard pickup will feedback at high enough volumes. I have a Baggs M1A that I'm going to experiment with, wiring it stereo and running the magnetic alone to the monitors and both to the mains - should give a lot more feedback resistance for band volumes. Baggs offers a similar system with an I-Beam and M1 combo (apparently Tom Petty is using this in his old Gibsons), just requires more stuff in the guitar than I want to install. The way I'm setting it up, there is no battery in the guitar whatsoever (unless the M1A is in the soundhole and you count the little watch batteries) and I get to use my two favorite pickups for each application.

Good luck!

[Rob DiStefano]

Both the K&K Pure Western Mini and the LR Baggs Active I-Beam are my choices of acoustic flat top guitar transducers, each for a different reason. Under bridge transducers capture the natural acoustic tone noticeably better than quacky under saddle piezos, IMO.

The I-Beam absolutely requires a preamp, and IMO it's best to use the on-board strap jack preamp. The transducer is super easy to install with the provided jig and it's all done with double stick tape for easy repositioning and removal if need be. It also comes with a neat under sound hole volume trim pot that's also double stick taped on. However, the I-Beam is a large unit and since it occupys the entire space under where the saddle lies on top, you can't easily (if at all) install a JLD Bridge Doctor.

The K&K Pure Western Mini is a passive transducer and no batteries are needed. Each of the 3 tiny transducers MUST be super glued to the bottom of the bridge plate at very specific locations. Using the double stick tape method will dramatically cut down on both volume and tone - don't use the tape! Installing the PWM used to be a *nightmare* - but that's all solved now with my super simple PWM installation method: www.FretTech.com/kk . The PWM is fast becoming my favorite acoustic transducer - warm acoustic tone, just use the amp's EQ to tweak the tone and resonance or go to an outboard acoustic preamp. The PWM can be used with a modified JLD Bridge Doctor.

These dayze, I offer the K&K PWM almost exclusively over the I-Beam.

What's a JLD Bridge Doctor? A truss rod for flat top acoustic guitar tops! If yer acoustic has that bulge behind the bridge and the action has risen as a result, the JLD will pull the top back down, and as a side benefit the guitar's tone and resonance will definitely increase. All Breedloves come with the JLD system. www.jldguitar.net/

[RL in Fla]

Good stuff on the tutorial, Rob ! What's a good way to remove/re-do since I used their tape on the initial install ? (2-transducer Mini on a Little Martin) Knife-edge off and something like naptha to remove the old tape ? Definitely got the volume drop thing going on big-time. I thought I needed a preamp it's so low .

[Rob DiStefano]

Soak with naphtha for minutes, then use a DULL knife edge under the TAPE to GENTLY pry/lift off.