Mic recommendations within budget.

[Mickey_C]

I've settled upon the Presonus Firestudio for my audio interface, so I have about 700.00 to upgrade my microphone selection, for use recording guitar amplifiers.

My monitoring and mixdown system would be the Cubase LE and the Presonus Firestudio with Fostex PM .5 monitors and AKG k240 phones.

My current microphones are the, Shure SM-57, Rode NT-1A, and Behringer B-5.

I'm thinking the next best upgrade to this will be a better mic, right?

Any suggestions for a 700.00 silver bullet?

[drfrankencopter]

For guitar amps, I'd say rather than spending $700 on one mic, look at an option for flexibility.

How about another nice dynamic mic, like a Beyer M-88 or a Sennheisser MD421, and a Re-amp box (perferably with a DI..maybe a little-labs red-eye)?

Cheers

Kris

[Greggy]

First, the SM57 will take care of most guitar cab applications. If you are bent on buying more mics for guitar cab applications and have $700 to work with, I would suggest an MD421 and e609 silver. You would still have a couple hundred left to spend. These 3 mics are more than enough to record great amplified guitar tracks. Or up your budget a couple hundred and buy a Royer. Never used one myself, but many love this mic for recording guitar amps and cabs.

[Mickey_C]

What's your opinion of the MD421 versus the RE20?

[Tonekat]

OK, here's the secret mic I learned about from a studio engineer who gave me recording lessons some years back. I have one and love it.

Stedman N90

Wonderful dynamic guitar amp mic. One just sold on the Bay for $149.

Or the similar Heil PR40.:AOK

[LSchefman]

>>What's your opinion of the MD421 versus the RE20?<<

I'm a firm believer in selecting a mic to achieve the sound I want to achieve; which mic is "better" isn't really a question I ask much, it's which mic is "better suited to the task at hand."

The RE20 is a classic announcer's mic that also works great on kick drum and bass guitar cabs. It can sound great on the RIGHT guitar cab. The Heil mic is designed to sound similar to this mic, and it's a very nice mic too, and like the RE20, it was originally designed for radio announcers.

Similarly, the 421 is a classic instrument mic you see used most often on percussion, most often toms and hand percussion, but it, too, can sound great on the RIGHT guitar cab.

My own guitar recording for my professional work is almost always done with a Shure 57. Not because I think "wow, a Shure 57 sure captures every tonal nuance of the amp," but because a Shure 57 gives me a very mixable sound that just flat out sounds the way an electric guitar sounds on lots of classic recordings. i.e., it's my personal idea of how an electric guitar is "supposed to" sound on a record.

Doesn't mean a 57 is right for you, or for every choice. There are times I will record a cab with a 57 and a Royer, if I want that modern "wall of sound" thing happening, since this mic has become popular with a bevy of rock producers, and it adds a big, round bloom to a recording. Still, I think that like any "mic of choice", to some degree this sound is cliche (but so is a 57!).

Ordinarily I don't care much for the sound of a condenser with a guitar amp, nor would I risk my good mics recording them after very nearly blowing out my U89i, but I bought a couple of Oktava 319s a while back to screw around with, and just for fun I miked up a Vox with them about 3 feet from the cab, low and off-axis...what a great sound! I might not be thrilled with these mics for a vocal, but they're great for SOME guitar cabs. So much so that I was thinking of sending them out to Oktava-mod, but I might not want to mess with a good thing.

So I guess the point is, everything works in the right context. Still, if there WERE a silver bullet for guitar cabs, I'll bet that many engineers would agree that it's the old standby, Shure SM57.

But I'd like to point out a caveat here:

Anyone can get on the internet and express an opinion about a piece of gear. Some of the opinions you get are from people who know what they're talking about; most aren't, they're just folks parroting what they've read or what someone told them. And lots of people think that buying a piece of equipment makes them an expert on recording. Don't buy into it. You can't buy recording experience. You have to spend the time doing it.

The only way, reinforce the word ONLY, to decide what works for you as a recordist is to roll up your sleeves and use the equipment yourself. Use the opinions of others as a guide to help filter out what you may or may not want to try, but do try out the things you think you might like for yourself before spending nearly a grand.

For $40-50 in most cities, you can book an hour at a surprisingly well equipped studio, take your guitar cab, and check out which mics work best with it. Most studios have all the mics you're considering on hand (by the way, when you call a studio, ask about their mics).

A $40-50 investment will save you lots of trouble and money, and you'll learn some stuff about how to record a guitar cab at the same time. How can ya beat that?

[Mickey_C]

Well, maybe I should redefine this:

I would like a microphone suitable for demoing what my amplifiers sound like to potential customers.

I've too have believed the SM-57 is the guitar mic of choice for making a recording of a guitar cabinet for a song.

I'm not sure about this, but for some reason I got in my mind that I needed to do something a bit more than that if I am trying to show what the amps sound like. Because I've always seen the 57 as a really colored lens, so to speak.

Am I on the wrong track? Should I just be recording the standard 57 guitar sound, and let them judge from that? I get the feeling that isn't actually what other builders, more experienced in this aspect of the business, are doing.

[Mickey_C]

Originally Posted by LSchefman

But I'd like to point out a caveat here:

Anyone can get on the internet and express an opinion about a piece of gear. Some of the opinions you get are from people who know what they're talking about; most aren't, they're just folks parroting what they've read or what someone told them. And lots of people think that buying a piece of equipment makes them an expert on recording. Don't buy into it. You can't buy recording experience. You have to spend the time doing it.

The only way, reinforce the word ONLY, to decide what works for you as a recordist is to roll up your sleeves and use the equipment yourself. Use the opinions of others as a guide to help filter out what you may or may not want to try, but do try out the things you think you might like for yourself before spending nearly a grand.

For $40-50 in most cities, you can book an hour at a surprisingly well equipped studio, take your guitar cab, and check out which mics work best with it. Most studios have all the mics you're considering on hand (by the way, when you call a studio, ask about their mics).

A $40-50 investment will save you lots of trouble and money, and you'll learn some stuff about how to record a guitar cab at the same time. How can ya beat that?

Sage advice, btw, and I am going to do this. Hey, I might even get a usable sound clip out of it.

[sethmeister]

Originally Posted by Mickey_C

I'm thinking the next best upgrade to this will be a better mic, right?

Any suggestions for a 700.00 silver bullet?

In my opinion your next best upgrade would be a high quality mic preamp, not a mic. The SM57 you already have is an excellent mic for recording electric guitars.

[LSchefman]

>>Because I've always seen the 57 as a really colored lens, so to speak. <<

Having done a lot of recording with a 57 as well as many, many high end condensers, I would say there isn't an uncolored lens.

But I now understand the issue you're facing; you want the clips of your amps to sound like the amps sound in the room.

The problem with this is that recordings like that can be really difficult to obtain. You really do have to experiment a lot. I'd definitely book some time at a good studio and try stuff out, because when it comes down to it, what you will need is both a good approximation of the sound of your amps, AND a good recording, and the two aren't necessarily the exact same thing.

It's one of those "tradeoff" things.

[Mickey_C]

Originally Posted by LSchefman

But I now understand the issue you're facing; you want the clips of your amps to sound like the amps sound in the room.

Bingo. That's why I was thinking of high-quality preamps, HD recording, and a combination of good mics.

[rocketboss]

I'd suggest a ribbom and a MD 421!

[Mickey_C]

And along these lines, I will also make clips using the amps with an SM-57, and some backing tracks from a CD, so the amp can be heard "in the (traditional) mix" so to speak.

At least, that's what I'm hoping to do.

[tradarama]

I just got one for in the upper $600s (forget exactly how much). A Royer R121 type of mic that's 1/2 the money and supposedly just as good (I'm certain that's overstated) but I just couldn't bring myself to spend $1200 for a Royer.

I've heard demos of the Royer R121 with amps and I thought it destroyed the SM57. That being said, I'm no expert and I'm sure the equipment blah blah all played into it.

FWIW I have been dealing with Doug at SoundPure. Very nice guy who helps a ton on recording gear. Great selection of almost everything. THeir prices are great too.

[jzb]

I'll add my $0.02 here too...

Les is right... if your going to be selling something with this setup, bag the lot and go to a studio. For a few bucks you'll be able to set up a bunch of mics with a bunch of pre's and find the right one that reproduces the sound that best represents your tone.

I'm partial to the straight-wire approach when it's near-exact reproduction. Limited path with limited color. A U87 and a John Hardy preamp would be ideal. Recorded at 88K or 96K via DTD and good AD converters (this could be more important than most people give credit).

Well, that my thoughts anyway.

-jzb