Need an amp mic for a 2 gigs - Need help - vocal mic?

[strumminsix]

Hi sorry if the title is crazy but it's kinda close to how I'm thinking right now...

Here's the deal, I've got to get an amp mic for a couple applications this year. Got 1 show that I need it and to do some rough cuts on a demo. That's it.

My first thought was e609 but it sounded a bit thin last time I used it.

Then I thought SM57 - industry standard for years, high quality like it in the past. Could back-up as a vocal mic if my SM58 ever took a dive.

Then I got crazy with my thoughts....
What about upgrading my vocal mic (from a 58) and use the SM58 for my amp. I do 60% of the singing in my band so I figured this would be a good thing one day anyway.

Thoughts?

How does an SM58 record a guitar amp?

Thank you!

[Chito]

Just take out the wind and pop filter in the 58 and it's pretty much a 57.

[Milkman]

Originally Posted by strumminsix

Hi sorry if the title is crazy but it's kinda close to how I'm thinking right now...

Here's the deal, I've got to get an amp mic for a couple applications this year. Got 1 show that I need it and to do some rough cuts on a demo. That's it.

My first thought was e609 but it sounded a bit thin last time I used it.

Then I thought SM57 - industry standard for years, high quality like it in the past. Could back-up as a vocal mic if my SM58 ever took a dive.

Then I got crazy with my thoughts....
What about upgrading my vocal mic (from a 58) and use the SM58 for my amp. I do 60% of the singing in my band so I figured this would be a good thing one day anyway.

Thoughts?

How does an SM58 record a guitar amp?

Thank you!

The SM58 and SM 57 are EXACTLY the same cartridge in slightly different housings, so yes, you can easily mic a guitar with a 58 and sing with a 57.

Personally I prefer the 57 for voice as long as the singer is experienced enough to know when to back off the mic.

[strumminsix]

Cool and thanks! So it sounds like my best bet would be for a better vocal mic and just use the SM58 for my amp?

Any need to worry about the wind/pop filter on the 58 when I throw it in front of the cab?

Should I buy a mic stand or just drape it over?


Thanks again!

[lifeinsong]

Either a 57 or 58 will work fine.

[gitpicker]

I do a lot of sound work, and I get these type of questions a lot. Here are a few points worthy of consideration.

- When mic'ing a guitar amp, placement of the mic will often have more to do with the sound you get through the PA than the kind of mic. The frequency range of a guitar speaker is very narrow (somewhere in the 80-7000 Hz range, depending on the type of speaker and enclosure used). Any cheap mic can cover this frequency range. However, a mic'ed amp can sound very different depending on where the mic is placed - in front of the cone, on the edge of the speaker, etc. Throwing a mic over the top of the amp and hanging it in front of the speaker is common - but you can run into some problems doing this, especially if your amp is close to another (especially a bass amp). Because the mic is not pointed directly into the speaker, it can pick up a lot of other things other than just your guitar. The "sweet" spot for most mics is directly in front of the mic, not off to the side. The Sennheiser fixes this problem - it sounds decent (if you can find an old one, they sound great!), it can be draped over the amp and its sweet spot is oriented correctly for maximum isolation of your amp. Plus it is about the same price as a 57 or 58. Bottom line, don't get to worried about mic'ing a guitar amp live - while you can hear big differences in the studio by using different mics and mic placement, in a live situation it just doesn't make that much difference. If you are using a 57 or 58, they will sound better if placed on a stand so the mic can be pointed directly into the speaker - the 609 allows you to do this without needing a stand.

- Concerning vocal mics - this one can get complicated if you let it. To break it down simply - if there are other people singing, and you share a monitor system, your best bet is to have everyone use the same mic. A lot of singers spend a bunch of money of some deluxe mic, but find that, while they might sound great, the other singers sound like crap - or visa-versa. Feedback becomes a problem because different mics have "humps" at different frequecies, so you end up using the monitor EQ to conpensate for one mic, to the detriment of another. I tell all my bands to get SM 57's across the board, and call it a day. Again, this is not a studio situation, where you will be able to hear subtle differences. I prefer the 57 to the 58 because you can get physically closer to the element in the 57 (due to the different housings), which gives you move gain - in other words, 57's can be louder than 58's because you can "eat the mic". There is a reason why these mics are the industry standards for live applications.

I am oversimplifying these issues a bit, but perhaps you can get the general idea.

[bandofthieves™]

When you pick a vocal mike you should take in to consideration the other vocal mic's being used on stage.especially if you only have like one monitor mix..SM58 is a great vocal mic.Never liked them for guitar amps they pick up too much around them.Stage vibration,etc.Big bleed over problem.I have used them for overheads on drums in a pinch..
Another option on the sm57 would be this
http://www.shsaudio.com/OM450.htm

[gulliver]

I once compared an amp with a $2k studio vocal mic with a standard stage vocal mic, and there wasn't much difference. The guitar signal is so basic, almost anything half way decent can pick it up with great results ... although, there will be EQ curve differences. As mentioned, if you're near other amps/drums, you may need something more directional.

As mentioned, where you mic is very important. The end of this clip shows the same setup with the mic pointed at the center of the speaker. The bass gets lost and the tone loses it's body.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoicc8/speaker/

[strumminsix]

Wow thank you everybody! The information is exactly what I needed!

Time to do some checking with the guys and make some informed decisions thanks to y'all!

[kenoflife]

Really been liking the e609 - got a new one, don't know if the old are better? How much so?
but its' so much easier to deal with on stage than the SM-57 - no stand!
Just have it sitting over the top of the amp, to the side of
the speaker, where the cone meets the edge. Maybe its a little thinner but with my setup (EL84 Goodsell 17w, Klon, tele) its sounds better than I could get the 57, and for $100 a very good deal.

In the studio I'm sure I'd prefer my old standby - the SM57 plus an LDC, for me my trusty AT4040 about 1 foot away.....together they have what I want.

[gitpicker]

Concerning the 609, and the older model being better sounding than the new one - I base my statements on the opinions of a couple of soundmen I have respect for. A check of eBay will show that the old ones sell for considerably more than the new ones, and there are very few old ones being offered (perhaps indicating that people that own them are holding on to them), so I guess many others share their view. I use the newer model now - as stated before, it is great to just hang over the top of the amp - no stands, no muss, and no fuss! It works like a champ.