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#1
06-27-2007, 10:27 AM
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Vetta II
I know this topic wont see much views or convo...but worth a shot!
anyone here own one? tell me about ur likes and dislikes! I want a combo..but hesitant on the fact that its basically a computer with speakers... solid state that models famous tube amps..how accurate? it also models cabs..4x12's n stuff...i dont get it...?! what would happen if you bought the head version and plugged it into a misc. 2x12 cab with say..vintage 30's? ease of use ? I know they update the software for it lots, they now have a Dumble type setting...I wonder how that is anyways, lots of mixed reviews, but I would love to hear more on it...or should I wait till the Vetta III ? (whenever that will be) 
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#2
06-27-2007, 10:40 AM
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I posted this a while ago as my review. Hope it helps:
Tone: The Vetta doesn't sound as punchy as a valve amp, nor it is quite as responsive. However, it sounds just fine for high gain use, as it is a bit more articulate when cranked. When it comes to clean tones, there are some good sounds there as well. However, a lot of the very organic in-between tones just weren't there for me. The Vetta shines when its cranked up to a reasonably loud volume. At lower volumes, the cleans sound thin, and most overdrives sound fizzy and paper thin. After an immense amount of tweaking, I could not find a middle of the road organic tone that had any soul or expression. Hard to explain and very subjective, I know, but when I would A/B it to a Peavey classic 50 which is 1/3 the cost of the Vetta, I always preferred the classic due to the response to the way you play, as well as a very vibrant and more colorful tone. The Vetta has a difficult time finding authentic sounding tones that react to the acoustic environment where tube amplifiers excel and this includes all environments (rehearsal space, garage, large hall, bedroom, echoey basement, etc...). What I mean, is that a digital emulator through loudspeakers doesn't physically translate the signal in the same manner making it lack a lot of that character that you get from a cranked tube amp in any environment and the way it reacts to your playing through the speakers, and it would therefore lose presence in the mix live and when micing it through the PA. So as an amplifier in an acoustic environment, it is very lackluster and not nearly as vibrant sounding. I would crank the mids, EQ both amp models, and fork around with cab models to brink its presence up in the mix, but it still lacked which created a lot of upper mid hiss, and no real musical expression of the guitar, which is the purpose of an amplifier in the first place. Also, the Vetta's chasis would shake from the inside even when using cleans, which was very aggravating and I found this to be true in 3 Vetta II's that I tried. When I address it's presence in the mix, I am referring to finding tones that have a generous amount of gain, but aren't overly saturated, and are therefore, very expressive and harmonically rich when striking the strings. This also applies to full-bodied clean tones w/ a slight breakup (simulated) I sold it for a few reasons: 1) Simplicity. -I don't use many if any effects, and thought I would if I owned the vetta. I was also impressed with the "Whatever sound I want, it's all in 1 package" and I was really trying to ween myself off of being a tube-snob. But I was foolhardy and way off base. What can I say?? The Vetta II was a bold experiment and I'm left with more knowledge of my own tonal tastes and opinions. When I gig, rehearse, or practice, I don't want to fuss with all of the volume levels and timbre's being consistent and saved to be prepared to play out at a show or rehearsal and though it goes under the radar, this is in my opinion the most tremendous shortcoming of digital amplification. For me, I want 2 solid sounding tones and having consistent acoustics when switching channels or hitting a boost. So, I would rather use my tone and volume controls on the guitar with the amps built in tones rather than farting around with a jar full of bees and a million variations. And when I'm gigging, nervous, sweaty, and just getting into the music without tapdancing and concentrating on effects, the last thing I want to think about is whether or not things are saved in the correct fashion and what to press next. I just want to play the damn guitar. 2) Patience or lack thereof -The Vetta has hundreds of parameters to tweak and it's tough to not have a constant EQ if you hear something you don't like. Therefore, you have to go through the process of re-Eqing and saving. If you're like me, and have other things to tend to (job, family, etc...) you won't want to spend hours getting a sound you like. And I'm referrring to when the honeymoon period of this amp subsides. You will be left with 80 amp models (version 2.50) and dozens of cabs, EQ, effects, room acoustics, etc... And when I get off work, I just want to plug in and play. Tube amps sound consistent in timbre when switching channels, even when using more extreme settings on either channel. There is a bizarre acoustic phenomenon of different timbre's that makes channels (patches) sound very artificial when switching patches with the Vetta II for live or recording. Since there are so many interactive parameters and being that it's digital, you are dealing with so many different kinds of sounds that don't sound good or musically uniform when you change patches, unless you spend an enormous amount of time tweaking before a gig or rehearsal. Therefore a big clean sound and a deep high gain sound would have completely different acoustic characteristics and you won't even understand what I'm referring to until you get into a band situation with the Vetta II, even if you're the only guitarist. 3) Gigging, rehearsals, tone, practicality, and the lot -I know my thoughts aren't organized, and I'm not trying to disuade you from buying a Vetta, I just think it's important for a fellow TGP member to know what he/she is getting into with a very expensive amplifier People hail the Vetta for its direct recording sounds. And to it's credit, they sound pretty good. However, you can attain many of these sounds with a POD for recording, and if you're only using it to record direct, there's no point in having a 60 pound cab to accompany it. Microphone presence- To my ears, getting a live or well recorded sound has much to do with the way a microphone interacts with the loudspeaker in a raw and organic tube amp. A tube amp barks a lot more and although they sound less pristine, the physics of tube amplifiers and the way they produce sound make them a great expressor of the guitar and its frequencies. Again, you need to try the Vetta to understand what I'm referring to. Let's face it, there is NOTHING like a cranked tube amp pushing air. The vetta has some usable fine tones that can be recorded straight onto disc or with an 8 track without too much trouble. But for me, it involved far more tweaking than simply putting an SM57 in front of my tube amps and going for it. Therefore, the Vetta's strength lies in its direct out capabilities with a stereo output since you model 2 amps at a time. Try telling that to a soundguy at a smokey club when you're playing out and trying to get a solid live tone. This doesn't cut the mustard, and in my experience, you'll either crank the Vetta to get into the mix, he'll throw a '57 at you and tell you to choose a speaker. Sometimes, simplicity and not having to rely on the bells and whistles really is bliss. In conclusion, for all purposes, writing, recording, gigging, rehearsing, getting tone that I loved, the Vetta was a massive failure at being a good working man's amp or a musical instrument. And it felt much more like a toy than a tool to create music. They may be great for pros that can have these tones available in the studio, and then tons of gear live, but for a practical musician just trying to be musically creative, the Vetta massively hindered the process. They sound fine, you get some great tones, and nobody, save for us gear heads will know the difference. With that knowledge, it's about what you like, because the way you feel about your live tone WILL affect your playing/performance, confidence, and mentality when presenting your music to an audience. If you can deal with a very complex setup (within a small package), then the Vetta may be good for you. In my honest opinion, digital amplification has come a long way, and there is a lot of credit due to it that people don't give. The purpose of the longest post in history is this: An honest review of an amplifier that looks to be the funnest toy but in the end was a burden and WAY too expensive, to let you know that you will need another $400 or so for the footswitch, as without it, it will deem the Vetta II unusable live, and to let you know that if you like a simpler set up that keeps you playing longer, and tweaking less, you'd be FAR better off getting a reasonably priced tube amplifier and if necessary for your applications, a handful of pedals for the same price or less. People praise digital talking about simplicity, everything in one package, ya da ya da ya da. It's the fact that it has everything including the "kitchen sink" that makes it a burden to own, especially if you just want to play. You spend your life tweaking, because with SO many options, you can get into the mentality of "it can be just a little bit better, let me re-think the cabinet models, microphone models, then re-tweak the graphic eq, bring up the mids, add a slight chorus, OH, and DON'T FORGET TO SAVE!!!" Therefore, it's an enormously complex setup in one package, and it's about you playing, not the millions of bells and whistles. ANYONE can stomp on a button. It takes creativity and emotion to be creative on an instrument. Remember that this is ONLY my experience and perception. Again, it is only MY opinion. I really tried to love the Vetta and I gave it a 6 month trial at home to make sure it wasn't for me. Just so you know, I also own a PODxt which I really like. It fulfills all of the things I liked about the Vetta in terms of direct recording and easily laying down demo tracks silently (sleeping infant in the house). And they sound good. I'm not anti-digital at all. If it sounds good, use it. For the the Vetta didn't sound good and I was happier with single or 2 channel tube amps that have a lot of range. For your uses, you might look at a good channel switching amp like a Mesa Boogie or Rivera. The price of the Vetta is for the looks and gadgets, not for tone. Good luck. Miles
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#3
06-27-2007, 11:18 AM
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I absolutely LOVED my Vetta II, and I still think of it as top of the class when it comes to both modellers and solid state amps.
I can agree with a lot of what Miles wrote, but I think his factor #1 (simplicity) is what killed the Vetta for him. You have to plan on spending a LOT of time tweaking this thing to get your sound out there. A lot of the stock presets and sims are useless. Some are great and provide the building blocks for an excellent sound (i.e. Diezel sims, Soldano sims, 5150, etc.) while the Marshall tones leave a LOT to be desired. Maybe a way to bypass all the time spent tweaking is to ask people with some good presets to email them to you (I still have several great ones kicking around). I got great sounds live and on stage, and thought the amp cut through the mix very well. I agree with Miles that it's thin (I found it thinner at the higher volumes, and that's where you really tell the difference between a tube amp and a modeller) and also less responsive than a tbe amp. He puts a premium on responsiveness because that's how he grooves with the amp (translation: enjoys the musicality of it). For me, I lived with the lag factor simply because I found all the presets and controls (get the FBV longboard) incredibly convenient. I've never played anything else that came close to allowing me to control my effects, volume, boosts, the way I could with the Vetta. Eminently programmable (the fact that it's a computer is good), one touch and a host of effects and volume come into play, etc. Almost limitless effects, it seems, 80 amp models, two dozen cab simulations, an equalizer, several cool features such as dual player which makes it sound like you have two guitarists in the band, etc. You asked about cab sims. Well, if you want the sound of, say, a greenback Marshall cab, you're better off setting the simulation than actually plugging into a real Marshall cab. I found the Vetta was NOT very compatible with most cabs and speakers. It sounded horribly bad with real greenbacks. If you're looking for the voice of a certain speaker or cab, use the simulation on board rather than the actual speaker or cab. As for what cab to get, I think the combo is more than fine. The stock Vetta speakers are made by Celestion and they are voiced flat so that the simulations come through cleanly. Those speakers may be useless with practically any other amp, I don't know. OK, you asked about V30s. Well, if you have a 2x12 with V30s, then keep the cab and use it along with your Vetta. I hooked my Avatar 2x12 V30 cab up with my Vetta combo and played stereo. I sent the dirty signal through the Vetta combo, and the clean signal through the V30s. Using a second cab, you can take advantage of a feature that practically no other modeller has, TWO AMPS AT ONCE. This is so much better than running a rig into two amps (i.e, going stereo) because you can have preset effects for each cab, effects that are entirely different from the other AND, most importantly, you can set a lag time that makes it seem as though two guitarists are playing the same song (one a few milliseconds behind the other). I can't say enough good things about the Vetta. I think it's a very giggable amp. I would just warn you that you already have to be savvy about amps in general before buying one, because otherwise it might be difficult to get a usable sound. If you go into a store to try it, I'd suggest the Satch's Alien preset to give it a test drive, and then spin the knob around to find the Line 6 Modern High Gain amp model (without effects) which is a sim of the Soldano SLO100. Don't worry about bass (whether you've got too much or too little) because the secret of scaling the proper bass is locked deep inside the amp with a function called LOUDNESS, and that might be hard to find. The manual is about 100 pages long. You have to read and memorize ALL of IT, unfortunately.
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#4
06-27-2007, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
"There are so many parameters and options that it has to be able to sound better, even just a little bit". It became that game every time practice time or rehearsal came along. With a tube combo, it makes me work with what I've got since I'm simple minded when it comes to playing the guitar. But it was more of a personal battle than a blanket statement of the amp. I think there are players who do exceptional things with modeling rigs.
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#5
06-27-2007, 01:04 PM
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wow thanks guys!!! lots of info!!
I wish there was one I could try out...but no dealers. I dont mind tweaking...in fact, I like amps that have lots of stuff to them...its more fun imo still...at that price tag...idunno... maybe ill try a switchblade, even though its not really a modeling amp so to speak 
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#6
06-27-2007, 01:25 PM
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I'd suggest keeping your options open until you've tried a few different modelers - Line6, Vox and Boss at the very least. Maybe Fender's Cyber series (even though technically it's not a modeler in the same sense as the others).
They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Don't be seduced by the names of the amps they're all supposed to model - you'll be disappointed. Use your ears and find a modeler that sounds (and responds) the way you'd like it to. As Ud Reks said, reading the manual pays off. Doesn't matter whether it's Line6 or anyone else - none of these are easy to evaluate. You can walk up to a non-modeling amp and know in a couple of minutes whether it's likely to work for you. Figure on an hour or two with a modeler, not including the time you put into reading the manual ahead of time.
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#8
06-27-2007, 11:34 PM
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IMHO, I`d suggest getting a Floor Pod XTL. It`s way less money and basically has the same sounds as the Vetta, and you can buy one with a Variax 300 for $699 shipped. I REALLY like this unit better than anything L6 has came up with, and it`s cheap as hell! That crappy cheap Variax can go from an acoustic 12 string (and sounds better than any Parker I`ve tried) to a Les Paul through a Dual Rectumfrier. I`m running mine through the effects loop of a Dual Showman, but have an Atomic amp on order and can`t wait to get it. I also have a 24 3/4 inch conversion neck in all rosewood with a 59 roundback shape for the Variax. But, like I just said in another post, it also sounds good straight through the PA when the cab simulators and EQ are set right. Best of luck and hope you find what you`re looking for.
Take Care, Pete Bogash
__________________
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side"...
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#9
06-28-2007, 12:41 AM
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Unfortunately, the Vetta was a terrible amp experience for me. I had an older combo updated to the latest software for about 6 months. It's was ok for noodling at home (so is a gorilla). Ya, the sounds are in there, but there is something missing... it lacks the breath and vibe you get from any tube amp it tries to emulate. IMO, no heart. The high tech thing is fun for awhile though, but it seemed I spent more time tweaking it than playing it. Not cool.
The worst for me was live it has no cut, and absolutely disappears in a band mix. Loud as shit, but just getting walked all over. Very frustrating, even bumping the crap outta the mids, and the highs are ice picky if you aren't careful. My 2cents...
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#11
06-28-2007, 06:24 AM
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I went to see Asia this past Sunday (at the Ridgefiled Playhouse). They were awesome, and Steve Howe was awesome. Guess what he was using - a Line 6 amp that I'm pretty sure was a Vetta. Guess what else, I didn't like his tone, although that's not new for me, I've never been crazy about his tone on records.
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#12
06-28-2007, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
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#13
06-28-2007, 11:40 AM
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I guess I'll add two cents more. Against my other guitarist who has a Peavey Satriani tube amp, my Vetta cuts through quite nicely. I have a stock rhythm preset that I'm playing practically all the time, but then on leads I hit the volume boost, a bit of delay, sometimes chorus (almost always with the Diezel Lead model, and it cuts through clear as day. It's the one thing I absolutely appreciate about the amp, the ability to fine tuine the sound to get where I'm going.
Also, none of the other line 6 modellers, amp or PODs, have the sounds that the Vetta does. They try to do the same amp SIMs, but the Vetta is the top of the line, and the difference is easily audible. I had a Vetta for a long time. I sold it to go back to tube amps because of the thinness at loud volumes, and the responsiveness, and because my band broke up and I don't gig anymore, and don't plan to anytime soon. I just wanted to say that, for me, the amp is a gigging amp, not one I played as much at home. I noticepeople like Steve Howe are picking up on Line 6, Dave Mustaine (ha, hah) and Bob Mould. Each of them do it because of the control they have over their sound, ease of use, etc. Also, keep in mind, the sounds you get at bedroom level have to be scaled for gigs (which is easy to do once you figure out the loudness function, and others, which combat some of the problems with scaling with modelling equipment).
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#14
06-28-2007, 11:56 AM
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I'm really enjoying my Vetta II head... I've heard the combos aren't as satisfying (hearsay only).
It took a lot of tweaking, but now I couldn't live without it. I gig in a hard rock & 80's metal type band.
__________________
"Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY... They meet at the bar."
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