Rodenberg Flex-Loop: anyone with experience?

[LordRiffenstein]

I'm looking at a device for my Carr Slant6v as I want to run it thru some rack fx. Currently I'm using a buffer but it does not sound good, it totally changes the tone for the bad. Looking around on the net, I found the Flex-Loop and I thought maybe somebody here has tried it or is using it!

Yoeri

[Jason Carter]

LordRiffenstein,

The Rodenberg Flex-Loop is designed after the Dumbleator by you know who. I have a friend who uses the Flex-Loop with a ODS100. For the most part it is transparent but he comments that it may thin the highs and bass response slightly. I've spent some time with the Flex-Loop and the same amp it sounded fine to me. I have a D'lite with a passes loop and I built an external buffered loop(Kleinulator) designed by Michael Klein. It is a Jfet based loop that works really well. It can be used in parallel or series mode and it has some bright switches and send/return levels. I really like the Kleinulator a lot, it does smooth out the amp somewhat which I like. I don't think you can wrong with the Flex-Loop for the price. It can also be used as a boost in front of your amp.

My Kleinulator Build

[michael.e]

I have a Chieftain that has a serial loop. I have been looking in to the Suhr mini-mix.

The problem that I have is that as soon as I plug anything in to the loop, the highs thin out and the overall character becomes a very slight bit anemic. The gain goes down, though I do not play with high, high gain. Simply turning up the preamp and master volumes does not alleviate this issue.

Biggest problem is that as soon as a jack touches that "out" line of the loop, be it for a loop, or an unbalanced line out in which the "return" of the loop is not touched, the sound/feel thins out.

Emee

[Woodyworld]

I own one and have been using it with a couple of TR's for about 8/9 months.

I think it's a great unit and the addtional switching possiblities it offers are very useful. However I agree it is pretty transparent but there are some tonal changes when using it. It does cuts the highs slightly. I like this personally as it suits the amps. (You can always compensate any noticeable treble loss with switches built into the unit if you want anyway.)

The ablility to set up a boosted 2nd return for solos is a excellant feature too.

[LordRiffenstein]

Originally Posted by Jason Carter

LordRiffenstein,

The Rodenberg Flex-Loop is designed after the Dumbleator by you know who. I have a friend who uses the Flex-Loop with a ODS100. For the most part it is transparent but he comments that it may thin the highs and bass response slightly. I've spent some time with the Flex-Loop and the same amp it sounded fine to me. I have a D'lite with a passes loop and I built an external buffered loop(Kleinulator) designed by Michael Klein. It is a Jfet based loop that works really well. It can be used in parallel or series mode and it has some bright switches and send/return levels. I really like the Kleinulator a lot, it does smooth out the amp somewhat which I like. I don't think you can wrong with the Flex-Loop for the price. It can also be used as a boost in front of your amp.

My Kleinulator Build

That looks pretty cool. How long did it take you to build that and was it hard?

[LordRiffenstein]

Originally Posted by michael.e

I have a Chieftain that has a serial loop. I have been looking in to the Suhr mini-mix.

The problem that I have is that as soon as I plug anything in to the loop, the highs thin out and the overall character becomes a very slight bit anemic. The gain goes down, though I do not play with high, high gain. Simply turning up the preamp and master volumes does not alleviate this issue.

Biggest problem is that as soon as a jack touches that "out" line of the loop, be it for a loop, or an unbalanced line out in which the "return" of the loop is not touched, the sound/feel thins out.

Emee

Sounds similar to what happens with my Carr, the mini-mix won't solve that unless it changes the impedance of the signal.

[LordRiffenstein]

Originally Posted by Woodyworld

I own one and have been using it with a couple of TR's for about 8/9 months.

I think it's a great unit and the addtional switching possiblities it offers are very useful. However I agree it is pretty transparent but there are some tonal changes when using it. It does cuts the highs slightly. I like this personally as it suits the amps. (You can always compensate any noticeable treble loss with switches built into the unit if you want anyway.)

The ablility to set up a boosted 2nd return for solos is a excellant feature too.

Thanks for the inside, did you order yours direct? Any added noise or interference?

[Jason Carter]

Originally Posted by LordRiffenstein

That looks pretty cool. How long did it take you to build that and was it hard?

From planning to completion about a month. I took a perf board layout and adapted it to G10 board. Once I finalized the layout and did some testing mounting JFET sockets to the G10 board assembly took about 10 hours. Here is a pic of the circuit install.

[michael.e]

Thanks for jumping in John. So in tests with your unit, did any of the test subjects suffer this problem that I am experiencing, but then get "bolstered" back up by the time it gets to the amps loop input? In your experience, is this drop in feel/tone inherent in serial loops, or simply in the design of my Matchless.

One last thing, can I simply use the parallel out on the Minimix as a line out to my other gear?

I am doing my best to put a rig together that leaves my core rig intact and I am having trouble doing that. I have tried mic'ing my dry 4-12 and it is an absolute pain because I have to reset levels and such whenever I move it. But ANYTHING that I have connected to my main dry amp [Matchless] thus far has had a negative effect on the tone/feel.

Thanks again for responding.

Emee

[Woodyworld]

No I didn't,

I bought via a dealer as he was willing to 'loan' it to me first to ensure it did what I wanted.

I havn't noticed any additional noise.......... It's the only such type unit I've tried so I can't offer any comparisons I'm afraid

Originally Posted by LordRiffenstein

Thanks for the inside, did you order yours direct? Any added noise or interference?

[guitarist58]

Hey, Emee, thanks for mentioning the Suhr MiniMix! I was recently wondering if such a device existed.

-Rocky

[michael.e]

Originally Posted by guitarist58

Hey, Emee, thanks for mentioning the Suhr MiniMix! I was recently wondering if such a device existed.

-Rocky

Glad to! Looks like a damn slick unit! FYI, "GAT" here on TGP is taking delivery of one. I am looking forward to his thoughts on the unit. He has a hell of an ear and makes the absolute most of his gear.

Emee

[michael.e]

Originally Posted by Suhr

The problem is that some companies slap in insert points into their amps and call them "loops" They are no more effects loops than the splice point that is in a Dumble. On a Dumble he sells an external box that gives you a true low impedance out and gain to come back into the amp.

The miniMix just like most pro rack gear is a low impedance/line level device. If you experience a loss plugging it in that means your send on the amp is not buffered and really shouldnt be called an "effects loop". This could be fixed inside the amp but sometimes it requires an extra tube. You can fix the impedance problme with a buffer and there are many sources for that. But if you need return gain you will need to fix the amp.
I have someone else with this problem and I might make him an external box to fix this which will give him a high impedance in/ low out as a send and it would have gain on the return. The MiniMix is a 1k out so no problems driving other gear.

Thanks for the info John.

If you are making one of those units, would you consider making another at the same time? I am dead serious about that.
If you would be inclined to, we can take it offline. I would be VERY ready to roll with something like this.
rocketdad-11-at-sbc-global-dot-net

Question: I am not trying to bait you for advertising, but do your amps accomodate for this situation in the loops? Both the Badgers and the OD series?

Thanks,
Michael