Help needed playing changes, Frank Marino content

[rob2001]

I'll preface by saying i'm a rock dork pentatonic guy! I don't read music and i'm not very good on the written terminologies. I have been playing for about 30 years and I feel i've got some tasty stuff in the bag, HOWEVER........

I was reading one of the threads concerning rock guys not playing thru chord changes and someone mentioned Frank Marino as a guy that did. Well, not knowing what was being discussed, I looked into it and now I realize what it's about. In the tune King Bee the tune goes Amaj-Bmin-Asharp min, to A again. (please forgive my nasty written terms!!) There is where he changes the position and he also goes into some scale I can't figure out. ( remember, pentatonic rock guy here!)

Seeing that Frank is one of my long time hero's i've been kindof obcessing on this and now my band has decided to do King Bee and i've taken on the task of learning some solo's somewhat note for note, or at least in the same scales, vibes and feeling.

Here is a youtube clip of the song.

http://youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DO5vwfwZ6D_U

Is there a specific scale he's doing? I usually would just go by ear on solo's but i'm thinkin this is out of my zone and maybe I can cut to the chase quicker if I can find what scale he's doing and work that scale.

Any advise or help is much appreciated, Rob

[dewey decibel]

I'm listening to it now. I'm not sure what you mean about Amaj-Bmin-Asharp min, to A again- it's just a I-IV-V blues. On the solos they do a walkup before the V chord. Here's the basic solo changes:

A7 | D7 | A7 | A7 |

D7 | D7 | A7 Bmin7 | C#min7 Cmin7 |

E7 | D7 | A7 | E7 |

In a "jazz blues" it would be:

D7 | D7 | A7 Bmin7 | Dbmin7 Cmin7 |

Bmin7 | E7....

with a ii-V leading to A instead of a V-IV leading to A.

But you can think of either Bmin7 or E7 as the same chord. As far as scales, try E mixolydian or B dorian. But really focus on the chord tones- those licks are coming from the notes in E7.

[rob2001]

I'm sort of following you! I messed up the notes in the first post on progression.
I'm having a hard time explaining the part i'm talkin about.As you said, most of the song is just a blues progression but in the mellow middle section they go to a progression thats like little wing and he plays some way jazz sounding licks and changes with the chords. The root notes of the progression are A, B, Csharp, C then E, D and back to A
A specific timeslot on the vid is beginning at 4:40.

[yZe]

Frank outlines the mi 7 arp tones of a few of those chords on the walk up

Particularly on the Bmi7, and i think even the C#mi7 at times - but I'm pretty sure that it's just the Bmi7 - but could be wrong

He then fuses it seamlessly back into the A7 blues stuff where he is approaching the MA3 of the A7 (the C#) from a 1/2 step below

[dewey decibel]

At that point he's mostly just outlining the changes. Here's the chords:

A7 | Bmin9 | C#min9 | Cmin9 | E7....


Bmin and Cmin are from the key of A major (not A7). That's why it sounds a little more "happy" or "sweet" right there. The thing is the C#min wouldn't have a natural 9th, it would have a flat 9. So in that sense he's borrowing that note from another key. That sounds complicated, but really all it is is moving that chord around- Bmin9. It's some common guitar player stuff. Basically you could think of these scales for each chord:

A7 - A mixolydian
Bmin- B dorian
C#min- C# dorian
Cmin- C dorian
E7- E mixoydian or B dorian


1)5
2)5
3)6
4)5
5)7
6)5

1)9
2)7
3)7
4)7
5)9
6)7

1)11
2)9
3)9
4)9
5)11
6)9

1)10
2)8
3)8
4)8
5)10
6)8

1)7
2)9
3)7
4)9
5)7
6)7

Those voicings are for all 6 strings,but you don't have to play all 6. In fact I would recommend just playing only three or four notes at once, as in the top four, middle four, etc.

Then you think of the scale within that chord voicing:

1)9-----------------------------------------7-9-10
2)7--------------------------------7-9-10
3)7-----------------------6-7-9
4)7--------------6-7-9
5)9--------7-9
6)7-7-9-10

Then you just slide the chord/scale up two frets, then down one. Again, this is for this tune- for the sound he's using. I wouldn't recommend learning to think C# dorian for that Cmin chord generally, it should be C phrygian. You could also just think of the minor penatonic scales for each of those minor chords and add in color notes (such as 9ths and 6ths) as you see fit.

I know this all seems really complicated, but it's not. If I was sitting in the room with you I think I could explain the whole thing in about 5 minutes.

[rob2001]

Yes, YES!!! Happy and sweet! Now that makes sense to me!!

But ya, that makes alot of sense about outlining, and sliding up 2 and down one, and so on. I worked on it this weekend just by ear and got pretty far. Now i'll take this stuff and work those scales (I have scale charts)to get them to flow good. I'm not a scale guy at all. Matter of fact my drummer says i'm the master of the A$$holian scale!! I'm stoked about pushing myself out of my comfort zone and learning some stuff beyond basic pentatonic wankery. Thanks to both of you for helpin out. Pretty cool that a "stuck in his ways" player can learn a few new things.

[SvenHock]

Glad you posted this! That is some sweet stuff Frank is laying down and I grabbed alot out of this so my lines say more than the usual. Thanks!!

[JonR]

Originally Posted by rob2001

Yes, YES!!! Happy and sweet! Now that makes sense to me!!

But ya, that makes alot of sense about outlining, and sliding up 2 and down one, and so on. I worked on it this weekend just by ear and got pretty far. Now i'll take this stuff and work those scales (I have scale charts)to get them to flow good. I'm not a scale guy at all. Matter of fact my drummer says i'm the master of the A$$holian scale!! I'm stoked about pushing myself out of my comfort zone and learning some stuff beyond basic pentatonic wankery. Thanks to both of you for helpin out. Pretty cool that a "stuck in his ways" player can learn a few new things.

Just to underline: really make sure you work from the chord tones (arpeggios), especially with fast moving changes like these.
There's a lot you can do with those top 4 strings in the shapes rockinrob posted, without having to add any other scale notes.
When you get to putting other scale notes between the chord tones, the chord tones are still your foundation..

The only reason (and it's a good one!) for leaving the security of chord tones and launching into a scale fully - ignoring chord tones - is to create a melodic line that flows across the chords. A really strong melodic phrase can override the need to refer to chord tones. (Just running a scale won't cut it.)
But the melodic line will still need to have a "target" - a final note that will be a chord tone on a chord somewhere down the line.

In fact, this is why improvisers like pentatonic scales so much! You can more or less noodle away on those at random and most things sound musical. (Even advanced jazz players use pentatonics, although they'll do fancy things like superimpose them where you might not expect them.)
You can't play randomly with full 7-note scales/modes - it's much more important to know what you're doing: in relating to chord tones, and/or in constructing melodic phrasing.

[Clifford-D]

Originally Posted by rockinrob

I'm listening to it now. I'm not sure what you mean about Amaj-Bmin-Asharp min, to A again- it's just a I-IV-V blues. On the solos they do a walkup before the V chord. Here's the basic solo changes:

A7 | D7 | A7 | A7 |

D7 | D7 | A7 Bmin7 | C#min7 Cmin7 |

E7 | D7 | A7 | E7 |

In a "jazz blues" it would be:

D7 | D7 | A7 Bmin7 | Dbmin7 Cmin7 |

Bmin7 | E7....

with a ii-V leading to A instead of a V-IV leading to A.

But you can think of either Bmin7 or E7 as the same chord. As far as scales, try E mixolydian or B dorian. But really focus on the chord tones- those licks are coming from the notes in E7.

That turnaround, the way I hear it goes

|..A7....Bm7..|..C#m7....Cm7..|..Bm7..|..Eb7....D7 ..||
Standard Stormy Monday changes

It sounds jazzy after leaving the A7 to switch into A maj7 tonality till
the last Bm7 then pop back into the A min pent stuff.

Here's part of first Stormy changes solo, in fact the band hadn't kicked into the Stormy
changes yet. This is how he communicates the change

put some grease it, and follow the clip at 4:38

...A7.....Bm7.....C#m7............................ ...Cm7
|-------------|-------------11-7---------|-----------10-6--------|
|-------------|-----------9------10-9-8--|---------8------8-7-10-|
|-----------7-|---------9----------------|-------8---------------|
|---7---7-9---|---10-11------------------|--9-10-----------------|
|-------------|--------------------------|-----------------------|
|-------------|--------------------------|-----------------------|

Notice how he plays min9th arps, keeping to the chord tones as JonR stated.


You can use the A min pent scale over these changes
instead of the A maj tonality for the blues hit.

Jazzy effect
Blues effect




Frank Marino simply kills.