Convert a shredder to a jazzer

[shredtheater]

Hi, recently bought SOS and have been working through it for the last few days. Its excellent and great for technique although its obviously written with alot of 'jazz' know how. Many of the examples mention guitarists im not familier with and seeing as alot of the guys on this forum seem to be 'mainly jazz i was hoping to find some info on which albums i could buy to open my ears up abit.. Im coming from rock/metal background. My fav guitar players are John Petrucci, Andy Timmons, Jeff Loomis, Jason Becker, DiMeola etc etc so i was hoping people would be able to suggests some albums which might appeal to a more rock orientated player.

People Like Methany, Martino and Benson seem to be brought up alot in the book. Any suggestions??

[stumboid]

Originally Posted by shredtheater

Hi, recently bought SOS and have been working through it for the last few days. Its excellent and great for technique although its obviously written with alot of 'jazz' know how. Many of the examples mention guitarists im not familier with and seeing as alot of the guys on this forum seem to be 'mainly jazz i was hoping to find some info on which albums i could buy to open my ears up abit.. Im coming from rock/metal background. My fav guitar players are John Petrucci, Andy Timmons, Jeff Loomis, Jason Becker, DiMeola etc etc so i was hoping people would be able to suggests some albums which might appeal to a more rock orientated player.

People Like Methany, Martino and Benson seem to be brought up alot in the book. Any suggestions??

Ummm... Play slower?

[GovernorSilver]

As far as Metheny goes, you'd probably like Gary Thomas's album "Till We Have Faces". Metheny's tone and approach is unusually aggressive on that one. It's very angry compared to his other recordings, except the really experimental ones (the 2-guitar, 2-drummer double CD with Derek Bailey on the other guitar, and "Zero Tolerance For Silence").

"Song X" is also amazing, but seems to be too aggressive for guys coming out of the rock world.

"Bright Size Life" seems to go over well with rockers. One of his best albums, imo.

Shredders though I think relate better to Allan Holdsworth. Get "None Too Soon" for his jazz takes and his "Against The Clock" retrospective double CD.

[adamquek]

I come from a nearly identical background, and I still remember the first jaz album that floored me. It was a Pat Martino compilation called Cream. I heard the solo on Sunny and said: I'm going to learn that!

And then I realized that by limiting myself to sweep picking and 3 note per string patterns so long, I had shot myself in the proverbial foot. With a harpoon. That was blunt. And rusty. And beginning to smell.

If you're looking for individual tracks, here are a couple of my favs

Pat Metheny:
Are you going with me
Have you heard
James
Spring ain't here
Don't know why (the acoustic one off One Quiet Night)

Pat Martino:
How Insensitive
Sunny
Footprints

On the non-guitar side of things, I'm a huge fan of the Jacque Loussier Trio. It's a jazz trio that arranges classical material (especially Bach) ala jazz. Can't get enough of that stuff!

[dkaplowitz]

Originally Posted by stumboid

Ummm... Play slower?

I've slowed shred recordings down to transcribe them. It doesn't sound like jazz at half tempo either. But nice thought.

[henry_the_horse]

Most of the arpeggios, sweep picking and others techniques are very similar, except tapping, pick scrapping and whammy dive bombing.
The problem with metal is lack of swing! Work a LOT on the swing feel (eights swing, sixteenths swing), specially when comping.
And regarding comping playing less is the key.

Records:
Mike Stern - Standards
George Benson - the Essence of George Benson
Mahavishnu Orchestra - Inner Mounting Flame
Pat Martino - The Maker
Joe Pass - Virtuoso 1, 2, 3, and 4
Pat Metheny - Bright Size Life

[Flyin' Brian]

When it comes to jazz and swinging, I can't believe nobody has mentioned Wes. Might as well learn from one of the absolute masters.

[henry_the_horse]

Oh, yes, great remark!

Wes Montgomery - Impressions: The Verve Jazz Sides
Wes Montgomery - The Incredible Jazz Guitar of Wes Montgomery
Regards

[shredtheater]

wow, thanks for this response guys. I will do my best to check out as much as pos!! Hopefully some of this stuff will open my ears abit and add abit of 'class' to my playing. Playing fast all the time is starting to get a little dull and i really want to add some chromatics to my playing, hopefully this material will give me a few ideas!!

Btw, i ment to say on my original thread, any ideas for frank gambale?? I know he is more fusion but ive always avoided him as im a devout alternate picker but i feel i once again have shot myself in the foot!!

Thanks again!

[Lucidology]

Gambale's great... you can't go wrong with hiim

If you can get some of his earlier recordings when he plays a lot of funk grooves where he shreds, but does it with a swing feel ... something you can learn to do with the licks you already play ...

[shredtheater]

any particular albums?? the list on his discography is overwhelming!!

[JonR]

John Scofield should be of interest to anyone with a rock background coming to jazz. He has a hard edge, lots of bluesy, jazz-funk sounds.
Also John McLaughlin of course, if you want dazzling speed with jazz sensibility.
And maybe Bill Frisell, though he's a bit more quirky/laidback.

Scofield with Pat Martino:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2RRUVAD9Mc
Scofied with great bassist Jaco Pastorius:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwhkPSEXs1Q
Frisell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThVKeFtyyrA
McLaughlin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J88Ep3_vKIk
(This last one always cracks me up: that sooooo l-a-i-d-b-a-c-k introduction (get on with it, you spaced-out old hippie) and then... POW! Aaaargh!)

[dkaplowitz]

Originally Posted by shredtheater

any particular albums?? the list on his discography is overwhelming!!

If you're coming from listening to shred, I'd suggest the Mark Varney "Truth in Shredding" he did with Allan Holdsworth (another guy totally worth checking out too!). Also, Frank Gambale "Live" has some of his fieriest playing on it (but the keyboard sounds are quite dated on this one). There's also some good playing on "The Great Explorers", which are songs in kind of a rock context. Good luck.

[GovernorSilver]

You can listen to Holdsworth play traditional jazz (with a quartet, recorded in 1978) for free here:

http://jazzfusion.tv/bootlegaudio.601.html

I'm sure there's other really good stuff on that website:
http://jazzfusion.tv/bootlegaudio.html

The archive is so huge, I haven't listened to much of the other recordings to suss out which is trad jazz and which is fusion. Enjoy!

[scottl]

Here is the Martino Sunny solo.... Harder than any shred I ever heard, and he is improvising it on the fly!

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/shaw...-SunnySolo.mp3