KM184 + guitar cab = wow, nice!

[MichaelK]

I don't know why I hadn't done this more often, but a Neumann KM-184 is damned nice for close miking a guitar cab. I feel this captures more bass content than a 57 or 421. It's different, and I like it. It's also nice when paired with a LDC farther away.

So far what seems to work best is the capsule 1 - 3" from the grill cloth at a 40º - 45º angle, aimed at the dust cap seam.

If I have the time and I remember (neither of which is likely anytime in the next month) I'll post a clip or two, but I thought it worth mentioning anyway.

[shawntp]

Interesting - I've always steered clear of SDC on cabs - I only keep one around for some acoustic work here and there.

What's the trick - not having the amp too cranked?

[elambo]

I don't think I've ever put a 184 in front of a cab either. I'd worry a bit about the membrane getting damaged, but if the volume isn't too loud I guess it'd be fine.

Are the mids as present with the 184 as they are with a 57?

[Denyle_Guitars]

I mic my small Supro in a similar fashion, using a C42. I started after putting up a MXL 603 on a whim and liking the result. I don't worry too much about damaging the capsule because it's so far off axis. On axis, it sounds sh!tty.

[MichaelK]

Originally Posted by elambo

I don't think I've ever put a 184 in front of a cab either. I'd worry a bit about the membrane getting damaged, but if the volume isn't too loud I guess it'd be fine.

Are the mids as present with the 184 as they are with a 57?

Well yeah, there's a limit to how stupid I'll be with that much money.

I dont crank amps way, way up in the studio, but some amps just don't sound good until they are loud. I turn them up to where they sound good, and if it makes me too nervous to use a 184 I'll use a 57 or 421. On amps with a FX loop I sometimes insert a volume pedal there, which allows me to crank the preamp AND power tubes for a nice, fat, saturated sound without ear-splitting volume. I've used that mic on fairly loud amps, though, and I've gone as far back from the grill as 4 - 6". It's max SPL rating is 138 dB.

I hear more high mids with a 57, more low mids with the 184. But not exaggerated lows. Overall I'd describe it as flatter than a 57.

[elambo]

A flatter 57 with a rounder butt could come in handy at times.

As for frying a mic - it can happen, sure, but we've all seen pics of vintage 47s placed right in front of cabinets. Personally, I'm afraid to put them too close to a kick drum, but others get them right up close and personal with a 4x12. Seeing that makes me bite my lip. They key is keeping the amp low. Anyway, it doesn't take volume to get a good guitar tone, not as far as the mic is concerned. Getting the amp to sound its best might require volume, but the mic likes low to mid volumes.

The volume pedal in the effects loop is interesting. Seems too easy... What's the catch?

[thesedaze]

Joe Ferla is known for using KM84's on clean amps, but I don't believe up close...usually 57 & M88 close, then KM84 back a bit

[MichaelK]

Originally Posted by elambo

we've all seen pics of vintage 47s placed right in front of cabinets. Personally, I'm afraid to put them too close to a kick drum, but others get them right up close and personal with a 4x12. Seeing that makes me bite my lip.

Me too, I can't bring myself to do it even with a $200 LDC.

We all know the Geoff Emerick stories, what balls it took to try that, but we never hear how the mics actually held up.

Originally Posted by elambo

The volume pedal in the effects loop is interesting. Seems too easy... What's the catch?

Nothing really, only that the speaker isn't moving as much air, so it doesn't reach its physical limits. But what I discovered is that some of what I perceive as speaker breakup might not be from volume at all, but from a confusion of midrange frequencies...? It's hard to explain what I mean. It sounds a lot more like a loud amp than it's supposed to.

Credit goes to riveratoasters for the idea.

[MichaelK]

Originally Posted by thesedaze

Joe Ferla is known for using KM84's on clean amps, but I don't believe up close...usually 57 & M88 close, then KM84 back a bit

I did try that, but not on a clean tone. It worked pretty well but I lost the low end; I found I liked a LDC better. But I'll try that on a clean tone, good suggestion.

I've been experimenting a little with a Peluso 22-47 in a wide cardioid pattern (between cardioid and omni) about 4 - 6' away, I dunno if I like it yet. It definitely captures more low end from farther away than cardioid, but it loses some punch.

[ben_allison]

You should give the Audix i5 a shot. It's like the 57, but the midrange is way more clear, and it mixes better. Ditto for the SM7.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by MichaelK

We all know the Geoff Emerick stories, what balls it took to try that, but we never hear how the mics actually held up.

It was a whole different thing using a U47 in the 60's. They were available, and easier to repair, and MUCH cheaper. Plus they had Beatles money.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by ben_allison

You should give the Audix i5 a shot. It's like the 57, but the midrange is way more clear, and it mixes better. Ditto for the SM7.

I've never had much trouble mixing a 57. I've had to be careful to capture enough low end with mic placement, but its standard tone is... standard. Once the bass is thrown in that low end sometimes becomes unnecessary. An SM7 is certainly another valid guitar mic.

[Greggy]

Originally Posted by ben_allison

You should give the Audix i5 a shot. It's like the 57, but the midrange is way more clear, and it mixes better. Ditto for the SM7.

A 57 tends to mix well, in fact that is its strong point. But first you have to position it carefully. If an i5 performs better in the mix, I need to try one.

[elambo]

I have to record a couple of rock tracks at home over the weekend. I have a km184 here so I'll give it a shot in front of the cab. Hoping for some nice tones.

[MichaelK]

Originally Posted by elambo

It was a whole different thing using a U47 in the 60's. They were available, and easier to repair, and MUCH cheaper. Plus they had Beatles money.

Of course. I was wondering how well they held up when he tried close miking.