High quality Amp Mike

[jduv]

I did a bit of searching and didn't find a relevant thread. If there's already one out there, then please point me to it =D.

I have been miking my Orange AD-30r with my little SM57 for a while now. I am going through an Apogee interface into Logic Pro. I was wondering if there is a better mike out there to capture my amp a little more clearly. The 57 always sounds like it's a little muddy and doesn't pick up the highs of the amp very well.

Of course, I could just be positioning the mike incorrectly. I have it centered up on the cone of the speaker, about 1 inch from the tweed of the amp face. I have also tried miking it at the outer circumference of the speaker cone, which sounds a little different but no better than miking it dead center.

Any suggestions on a high quality mike amp?
Also, do you have any techniques to get a better sound out of what I have?

[guitardr]

Off-axis, distanced miking, and rear miking are all various ways of miking in the studio to hear the various freq's and the air being pushed. So many mikes are capable of being swapped out or used to get different tonal shades too. The sound man years ago for Blues Busters (Paul Barrere, T. Lavitz, Freebo, Catfish Hodge, and Larry Zack) wanted to buy some EV PL96's I had as if they were better than 57's. Another session where I used a Vibratone box had the engineer use a Sennheiser 421, which I thought more for vocals/acoustic use. Go to EQ magazine and sleuth out their archive for ideas and directions in mikes & techniques.

[jduv]

Thanks for the magazine recommendation. I'll be checking it out!

[shawntp]

If an SM57 isnt giving you everything you want then try adding a second mic like a Large Condenser or even a cheap Ribbon like the Cascade Fat Head.

The 57 close really gets the sounds that you want but sometime you need something paired with it to get that full body. A LDC mic alone would might sound as if it were missing the SM57 up close too.

An SM57 solo does great things but if you are looking for more I would add a second mic to the SM57 first over changing it out.

[mbetter]

The Sennheiser 609 is a nice mic too.

[gitman]

Sennheiser E-906 - great solution !
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/e906/

[jduv]

I use my SM57 for live shows as well as for recording. I'm not opposed to using a different mike for each application given I'm convinced that I'm actually getting a benefit in the situation.

I'll check out the electrovoices.

I also noticed at a dream theatre show last night that several of the guitar cab setups had dual mikes. It appeared that there was an SM57 dead center of the cone (on a Mesa cab) and another condenser looking mike at the outer rim. I thought it was an interesting setup, so I figured I'd mention it here =D.

[jduv]

Here's another question:

If I were going to buy another Mike to mix with the SM57 (my apogee has two inputs after all), what would anyone recommend? What are the shortcomings (frequency wise) of the SM57?

[jduv]

I'm going to try the SM57 + a large condenser (thanks for confirmation shawntp).

I talked to a GC guy--this guy seemed to know his stuff but since I'm a recording noob I probably couldn't recognize good advice from sales pitch at this point, and he recommended the E609 (thanks mbetter). I might check one of those out and see what sounds I can get from mixing it with the SM57. There's also the MD421 (500 bux tho) that I can consider swapping the SM57 out with if I get a large christmas bonus or something.

Thanks for all the input!

[E_A]

There are things to dislike about SM57s. But if it's sounding muddy on an Orange, I'm going to wager it has a lot more to do with placement or amp settings than anything else. Really small movements forward and back, where it's aimed, etc all make real differences. I wouldn't switch out the mic until you've really exhausted your placement and technique options. Also, you aren't overloading the preamp, are you? If you're "recording hot" and pushing inputs near the red, you're crushing your headroom and reducing the clarity of your signal chain.

It's of course a personal decision, but I don't add a second mic until the first mic sounds good and I'm just looking to add something else to the sound. Adding two mics introduces the issue of phase cancellation and shouldn't be viewed as a band-aid for a single mic sounding muddy and bad. What sort of music are you recording?

[Ulysses]

If you have it your budget for "high quality" mic as you say, the next level up from a 57 would be to the ribbons like a Royer 121 or a Coles 4038. Along with the 57 both are studio standards widely used on major label recordings.

[shawntp]

AT4047 is a well know LDC that pairs well for cabs (its a good quality all around mic to have for vocals/others).

If you are just doing guitar cabs there are probably cheaper options too but the 4047 is a good price/performer on the used market.

I would also say the Ribbon option might fly - I hear lots of people are loving the Cascade fat head for guitar cabs with a 57 to balance all the low end of the ribbon.

[jduv]

Also, you aren't overloading the preamp, are you? If you're "recording hot" and pushing inputs near the red, you're crushing your headroom and reducing the clarity of your signal chain.

I run the amp relatively loud because this particular strain of AD-30 doesn't start sounding good until the volume is at around 12 o' clock or higher. I am very careful to not overload my Apogee, so I don't think the issue is there either--good question though!

It's of course a personal decision, but I don't add a second mic until the first mic sounds good and I'm just looking to add something else to the sound. Adding two mics introduces the issue of phase cancellation and shouldn't be viewed as a band-aid for a single mic sounding muddy and bad. What sort of music are you recording?

What you say makes perfect sense, and I'm glad I didn't plop down the cash for the sennheiser. I'm going to take your advice and mess with the placement of SM57 until I get a decent sound out of it and then worry about getting a condenser to mix with it.

I was also looking at the Rode NT1A, any people familiar with this guy in a guitar miking application? I was also thinking about a ribbon mike too, but I don't know the difference between that and a condenser (thx for the suggestions Ulysses and shawntp).

[E_A]

It may well be that the 57 is not the mic for you - but always best to work it hard through the paces first. I typically don't go for 57s except for very identifiable "rock guitar" tones. If indeed the 57 never sounds anything but boxy to you, no matter where the placement, my first suggestion would be an Audix I5 for more "modern" focused sounds. It's a little less in the mids than the 57 - less of the 57 honk. MD421s can be great on cabs - big beefy sound I like a lot for high gain stuff. My all around most used guitar mics these days are the Shure SM7b (thicker) and Beyer M88 (more present.) I'll often pair in a Crowley & Tripp ribbon if the song doesn't have a dense arrangement and the thicker guitar sound will fit. It's a drag, but you could probably go down to the local Banjo Mart with your amp and set up in the audio room to try each mic out.

Sometimes a 4047, old GT MD1a, or old Baby Bottle sounds great on an amp to me, but I usually like dynamics on amps. Sometimes two dynamics, or a dynamic and a ribbon. Can't remember the last time (within the past year) I put up an LDC and decided to keep it, actually, but musical style and arrangement will have a lot to do with that.

Is this one of the older 30s that they stopped making several years back? The single channel ones? Those things are fantastic amps... I regret passing on an opportunity to grab one cheap a couple years ago.

[MichaelK]

Try aiming it at the seam where the dust cap meets the cone, and also try placing the rig in a highly reflective area, like a tile bathroom or an empty closet. Adding a LDC farther away is also a good idea (but not in the bathroom or closet). Someone mentioned the AT4047 as a good mic for that and I agree.