Let's talk wireless into effects...

[Deville2Rocket]

Some effects are dependent upon electrical interaction with a volume and/or tone knob. Take a fuzz, for example. Fuzz (traditionally) sounds best if it's placed before the first buffer in the chain.

OK, now what if you're using a wireless?
Is the signal from the output of the receiver going to the pedals buffered by the wireless?

Is the signal gonna look the same to your pedals as it would with a wire? Seems to me the effects that depend on that electrical interaction with the pots on a guitar would suffer if a wireless is used.

Personally, I love the freedom of the wireless. Mine is of pretty good quality, I think (AKG WMS400). The tone, to my ears, is very similar to wired.
In some of the venues I play, where the wiring is less than stellar, using a wireless also prevents those nasty lip shocks you get on the microphone when there's a ground problem.
One problem I do notice with the wireless is a little bit of hiss. This is mainly when I play bass guitar through it. Any ideas on how to control hiss?

What are some of your personal experiences with wireless?

[earthtonesaudio]

Is the signal from the output of the receiver going to the pedals buffered by the wireless?

Yes.

Is the signal gonna look the same to your pedals as it would with a wire?

No.

Seems to me the effects that depend on that electrical interaction with the pots on a guitar would suffer if a wireless is used.

True. You can kind of "fake it" if you're willing to mod your pedals, by adding an inductor and some other stuff to the input, but it's hard to get it exactly right, and a lot of work.

In some of the venues I play, where the wiring is less than stellar, using a wireless also prevents those nasty lip shocks you get on the microphone when there's a ground problem.

That's scary. For the sake of musicians who don't have wireless sets, you should report that place to the fire marshal or similar city authority.

Any ideas on how to control hiss?

...Um, turn down the treble? Sorry, that's all I got.

[Deville2Rocket]

Originally Posted by earthtonesaudio

Yes.

That's scary. For the sake of musicians who don't have wireless sets, you should report that place to the fire marshal or similar city authority.


...Um, turn down the treble? Sorry, that's all I got.

I don't know how often you play out, but these grounding issues occur in about 10% of the venues I play.

And as far as the hiss issue goes, I'm guessing there's some kind of noise floor problem I'm encountering. Can't tell if maybe the wireless transmitter is just up too hot, or if it's the volume at the output of the receiver. I'm sure it's probably just a balancing act between the two.

[waxnsteel]

Not with pedals, but into the front of the amp...

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...songID=5322401


Mines a Sennheiser (gen 1) The clean - dirty - lead was all volume knob. Once through with just a cable, then with the same cable AFTER the wireless. Wireless doesn't crush the dynamics quite as badly as some would suggest. I haven't recorded any tests with the wireless and pedals, but my OCD responds similarly to what is posted.

[StompBoxBlues]

Originally Posted by earthtonesaudio

Yes.

True. You can kind of "fake it" if you're willing to mod your pedals, by adding an inductor and some other stuff to the input, but it's hard to get it exactly right, and a lot of work.

Actually, Radial Engineering (the guys that make Tonebone, etc.) make a very small unit designed exactly for this. I own one (bought for a different reason, and then later I bought a wireless) and I can't think of the name of it but if you go to their site you will find it. It is not just a simple resistor/cap deal, it is designed to adjust the output impedance of the wireless signal.

Like I said, I have a wireless, and the unit from Radial, but haven't yet gotten around to using it. I had used it with a normal cable, and it worked pretty well for that, getting better signal into my first pedal. I ought to really dig it out and try it.

I just checked and it is called "the Dragster". They don't specifically mention into fuzzes, but send them an email and see what they say?

[drod2045]

my tone is 99% the same through the wireless and with a cable. I use an X2

[buddaman71]

Originally Posted by drod2045

my tone is 99% the same through the wireless and with a cable. I use an X2

100% agreed.

a) I have always hated wireless.

b) My new X2 is 99% as good as the best cable I have ever played.

c) The simplest solution is always the best. Just spend $ 300 on a new X2.

[StompBoxBlues]

Originally Posted by drod2045

my tone is 99% the same through the wireless and with a cable. I use an X2

Big issue here is interaction with fuzz. You didn't mention it. Fuzz is different than just about any other type of pedal, as far as how touchy it is to the input signals.

Do you use a fuzz? Does it work the same with cable or wireless with your fuzz?

[StompBoxBlues]

Thread seems to be dying...oh well... I asked at Radial, and got this answer: "the idea of the dragster is to load down the guitar pickups to simulate plugging into your amp. In order to work properly the Dragster must be the first device your guitar plugs into."

Now this is from the horses mouth, so I am sure I must be wrong, but I recalled hearing from others, and in the manual that one could use it at guitar or directly after the reciever. Anyway, I'm still going to try it out and see what happens. I HATE answers like this, my question was very specific:
"will or should the Dragster help in instances where you go from guitar->wireless sender- - - - ->wireless reciever->Dragster->fuzz in keeping the ability to use the guitar volume knob to fine adjust the fuzz?"

But that was the answer. So it may not be a solution, sorry.

[earthtonesaudio]

FYI, this is the circuit I was talking about:
http://www.muzique.com/lab/pickups.htm

It's not too complicated, and it will get you in the ballpark, but physical size limits where you can put the circuit, and using different inductors will likely change the resonant peak.

...That's a strange response from Radial. Most amps don't actually load down guitar pickups very much at all (1M input impedance is pretty standard). Maybe they meant "to simulate plugging into a fuzz face."

[StompBoxBlues]

Originally Posted by earthtonesaudio

FYI, this is the circuit I was talking about:
http://www.muzique.com/lab/pickups.htm

It's not too complicated, and it will get you in the ballpark, but physical size limits where you can put the circuit, and using different inductors will likely change the resonant peak.

...That's a strange response from Radial. Most amps don't actually load down guitar pickups very much at all (1M input impedance is pretty standard). Maybe they meant "to simulate plugging into a fuzz face."

Hey, VERY cool little circuit there at the bottom. Wouldn't be hard to make, but I think you mentioned...might be harder to tune or get the right values for it? Definitely something to try.

I also thought the answer from Radial was a little obtuse. I am still pretty sure I read in the manual (I still have it so I can check when I get home) that it could be used on the reciever side of the wireless unit, which was one of the main applications. I am 100% sure that the person that recommended it used it that way between reciever and pedals.


Yeah... I thought that too

[drod2045]

Originally Posted by StompBoxBlues

Big issue here is interaction with fuzz. You didn't mention it. Fuzz is different than just about any other type of pedal, as far as how touchy it is to the input signals.

Do you use a fuzz? Does it work the same with cable or wireless with your fuzz?

I do use a fuzz. I use the 200lbs of tone. I use my volume knob excessively with dirt and it interacts the same for me. Using the knob, I go from all dirty to basically clean

[frankencat]

Originally Posted by buddaman71

100% agreed.

a) I have always hated wireless.

b) My new X2 is 99% as good as the best cable I have ever played.

c) The simplest solution is always the best. Just spend $ 300 on a new X2.

I have to agree. I have been using mine in the studio as well.

[Tweeker]

Originally Posted by StompBoxBlues

Thread seems to be dying...oh well... I asked at Radial, and got this answer: "the idea of the dragster is to load down the guitar pickups to simulate plugging into your amp. In order to work properly the Dragster must be the first device your guitar plugs into."

Now this is from the horses mouth, so I am sure I must be wrong, but I recalled hearing from others, and in the manual that one could use it at guitar or directly after the reciever. Anyway, I'm still going to try it out and see what happens. I HATE answers like this, my question was very specific:
"will or should the Dragster help in instances where you go from guitar->wireless sender- - - - ->wireless reciever->Dragster->fuzz in keeping the ability to use the guitar volume knob to fine adjust the fuzz?"

But that was the answer. So it may not be a solution, sorry.

Radials answer is not comprehensive, but IS accurate. The Dragster DOES NOT WORK when placed between the wireless receiver and pedals. It is designed to see the guitar pickup impedance. The wireless receiver has a buffered output which renders the Dragster useless.

How do I know this? I went through every possible tweak to allow my X2 system to work with an MI Audio Neo Fuzz - it is one of those fuzzes that turns to crap with a buffered input.
The ONLY thing I have found to work is to insert ANOTHER preamp / buffer after the wireless receiver and turn the output very very low. This ends up lowering the overall signal making it look similar to a guitar load. It unfortunately changes the gain structure of everything, but it does allow the fuzz to be used with the wireless and active pickups.

Any other real solutions would be appreciated. There must be other players out there that use wireless/fuzz and have figured out something innovative.

Not to be a troublemaker, but the X2 does NOT sound EXACTLY like a cable.

[Zero]

I agree about the X2. It not just fuzzes, I find it changes the sound in general of my pedals and amps. I didn't realize it until I looked back, but towards the end of this summer into fall i stopped using the X2 & went to a cable and used the same amp & pedals the whole time. until the band got mad at me and so I dug out the X2 again and since then I've been changing amps and pedalboards every gig when I finally stood back and thought 'what's going on here?'

My RAT pedal becomes "fuzzy" (more than usual). Same with my Marshall 3203. I was getting a great sound. Really inspiring to play. Then I plugged in the x2 & I was immediately twidding knobs trying to fix an undefinable something.

Does the Dragster work as intended, I mean after the guitar/before tranmitter?