Line6 DL4 questions

[kselbee]

I'm considering upgrading my tonecore delay to the DL4 for the programability. It'd be nice to have 3 presets right there. So am I right in that you select a preset and select it again to turn the pedal off? So in other words, you don't need to use one of the presets to have no delay? Are there any other programable delays I should be looking at?

[ecbluesman54]

I have a DL-4 that I use as a grab and go delay, but I have a Boss DD-20 on my board. I prefer the DD-20 overall. The other delay that I like a lot is the Nova Delay.

[j_m_s]

Do give the TC electronic Nova Delay as well as the Empress SuperDelay and the Eventide Timefactor a good run through too while you're at it.

They're all very decent delays but i believe they are all at a higher price point than the DL4.

God Bless,
James

[aarondavis]

Originally Posted by kselbee

I'm considering upgrading my tonecore delay to the DL4 for the programability. It'd be nice to have 3 presets right there. So am I right in that you select a preset and select it again to turn the pedal off? So in other words, you don't need to use one of the presets to have no delay? Are there any other programable delays I should be looking at?

The only thing that is an upgrade in going to a DL4 is having presets and the looper. The Echopark is a much better sounding delay than the DL4. I have both and the Echopark seems to have better, more realistic modeling algorithms, and whatever analog circuitry used in the path (noise and EQ filtering) make a better executed effect.

I much prefer my Echopark over my DL4. If you want presets, you might look elsewhere than the DL4.

[kselbee]

Originally Posted by aarondavis

The only thing that is an upgrade in going to a DL4 is having presets and the looper. The Echopark is a much better sounding delay than the DL4. I have both and the Echopark seems to have better, more realistic modeling algorithms, and whatever analog circuitry used in the path (noise and EQ filtering) make a better executed effect.

I much prefer my Echopark over my DL4. If you want presets, you might look elsewhere than the DL4.

Good to know... thanks. Now I'm investigating the Boss double pedal delay (DL20 or something like that).

[Tweeker]

Originally Posted by aarondavis

The only thing that is an upgrade in going to a DL4 is having presets and the looper. The Echopark is a much better sounding delay than the DL4. I have both and the Echopark seems to have better, more realistic modeling algorithms, and whatever analog circuitry used in the path (noise and EQ filtering) make a better executed effect.

I much prefer my Echopark over my DL4. If you want presets, you might look elsewhere than the DL4.

to kselbee:
I have the opposite experience. The only thing I prefer the Echopark for is the smaller footprint and slight boost in signal as opposed to a slight decrease in signal with the DL-4. I feel that the Echopark sounds edgy and and brittle compared to the DL-4 which is more organic and over all, a more musical pedal.

And to answer your initial question, you're right. You select a preset and select it again to turn the pedal off. You don't need to use one of the presets to have no delay

[Isaiah4Autumn]

Originally Posted by Tweeker

to kselbee:
I have the opposite experience. The only thing I prefer the Echopark for is the smaller footprint and slight boost in signal as opposed to a slight decrease in signal with the DL-4. I feel that the Echopark sounds edgy and and brittle compared to the DL-4 which is more organic and over all, a more musical pedal.

And to answer your initial question, you're right. You select a preset and select it again to turn the pedal off. You don't need to use one of the presets to have no delay

+1 I have both the DD-20 and DL4 and prefer the DL4 anyday to the dd-20 so much that I sold it and bought a timefactor...i still have my dl4 on the board along side the timefactor and will never get rid of it...i've had it for 3-4yrs now with now problems

[Hugo Da Rosa]

I currently own a DL-4 and I also think the sound quality of that is better than the echopark. I've used a DD20, DD5, DD6, DD7, and a few other delays and I still love the DL-4 as a spacey "frosting" for my delays. I have the DD7 on board with it and the DD7 is more for my standard delays. But I use the DL-4 for some of the sounds you can't get on other days (ie. Lo-Res delay, 'fluttery' tube echo, very lush sounding modulated analog delay, modulated auto volume delay, etc.). If the DL-4 is going to be your source of primary standard delay, it would work fine but I think you may be better off going with something of a smaller foot print. But if you are more into those spacey echo sounds, then DL-4 would always be my first choice.

[ed84246]

DL-4 has the annoying side effect of volume drop when you turn it on. Sent it for a Keeley mod and it kept doing it. Sent it back to Keeley and they supposedly "fixed it" again, then started doing the exact same thing. Keeley Mod is money down the toilet in my opinion for this thing, so just know there will be that volume drop.

[frizbplaya]

The only thing that is an upgrade in going to a DL4 is having presets and the looper. The Echopark is a much better sounding delay than the DL4. I have both and the Echopark seems to have better, more realistic modeling algorithms, and whatever analog circuitry used in the path (noise and EQ filtering) make a better executed effect.

I much prefer my Echopark over my DL4. If you want presets, you might look elsewhere than the DL4.

The DL4 and echo park have the exact same modeling in them. It's not like Line6 wasted time re-modeling the same sounds. The DL4 has presets and a looper, but also more mods. The lo-res is a favorite you can't get on the echo park.

If you're looking for presets and the ability to do digital and models of analog delay, check out:

DL4
Boss DD-20
Eventide Time Factor
TC Nova

I put those in order from "most analog" to "most digital" sounding, imo. And to answer your question, yes, to bypass the delay you step on the button for the preset you're currently on. Hope that helps!

[aarondavis]

Originally Posted by frizbplaya

The DL4 and echo park have the exact same modeling in them. It's not like Line6 wasted time re-modeling the same sounds. The DL4 has presets and a looper, but also more mods. The lo-res is a favorite you can't get on the echo park.

Oh so that's why the tape delays on *my* Echopark and *my* DL4 sound completly different...

Something is completly different about the character (wow and flutter specifically) of the tape delay on the EP and the DL4. With a digital recording such as a delay, that modeled charactar would have to be in an updated algorithm. Either way, I completly disagree in that my EP and DL4 sound the opposite to what you describe. The Echopark is the one that sounds more organic.

And why wouldn't Line 6 update the modeling on the Echopark (a pedal that came out 5 or 6 years after the DL4)? Every other product they have has gone through evolutions in modeling, just like in updated code in popular software applications.

[mapleneck72]

If you go from Echo Park to DL4, you won't have an easily available dotted eighth note setting anymore (not an issue for me). I don't notice a volume drop on my DL4 but it's noticeable on the MM4. You can access your 3 presets on the footswitches but to use the looper you have to select it on the dial and then the footswitches have loop specific functions (record, play, play once, half time/reverse). I use the tape echo, sweep echo, and reverse delay (to play things that sound like loops live). I would keep the DL4 just for the factory preset in footswitch #2 - shoegazer sweep echo that goes into oscillating feedback. If you need a pedal to do "science projects" on your recording, this is the pedal. My friend who has an axe-fx ultra recently asked me to explain my presets so he could model them in the axe-fx. Nuttiness.

[electron transl]

Originally Posted by aarondavis

The only thing that is an upgrade in going to a DL4 is having presets and the looper. The Echopark is a much better sounding delay than the DL4. I have both and the Echopark seems to have better, more realistic modeling algorithms, and whatever analog circuitry used in the path (noise and EQ filtering) make a better executed effect.

I much prefer my Echopark over my DL4. If you want presets, you might look elsewhere than the DL4.

Actually, I spoke with one of the Line 6 DSP engineers (who also happens to be one of my best friends). I asked him about this and he said that the Echopark uses a subset algorithm of the DL4 DSP. So the "better" sound you're experiencing definitely isn't w/in the algorithm.

BTW, search for a thread I started sometime ago called "Tips and Tricks for DL4" or something like that. I share some of my favorite settings/sounds and so do a lot of other TGP'ers! I'm a HUGE fan of the "Auto-Volume" preset. I tweak it to get these long-lasting swells that cascade into each note. Everytime I play that setting live I have someone coming up and asking how I got that sound. Once I tell them, I see their face drop b/c it's not as complicated or cool as they anticipated. Maybe I should stop explaining my magic tricks?

[Red Suede]

I didn't have a volume drop with my DL4 before the Keeley mod. Are you using yours in the effects loop? Line 6 pedals are built to go in the front end, not the loop.

[aarondavis]

Originally Posted by electron transl

Actually, I spoke with one of the Line 6 DSP engineers (who also happens to be one of my best friends). I asked him about this and he said that the Echopark uses a subset algorithm of the DL4 DSP. So the "better" sound you're experiencing definitely isn't w/in the algorithm.

Cool, thanks for the inside info. Very interesting. I also mentioned that there must be some different analog circuitry. I do know that George Tripps (sp?) from Way Huge was involved with the Tone Core line at some level. I wonder if he helped with the analog circuitry? I’m no expert on pedal building, and specifically regarding the DSP.

But there’s definitely a more organic sound to the Echopark. Specifically, there’s an odd EQ difference of the entire sound when you switch on the Tape delay settings on the DL4 (and this is accompanied with the volume drop). This doesn’t occur with the EP. Maybe you could verify this with your friend, but I’ve also read somewhere that the Echopark uses a parallel processing (kinda like an effects loop) to delay the signal, where the DL4 on the other hand actually runs the entire signal through the digital modeling.

Also the wow and flutter of the tape on the DL4 is exaggerated (even turned all the way down), where it can be much more subtle on the Echopark. It’s possible this has to do with the analog filtering, but I don’t understand how.

Whatever the difference in the processing, I sure wish that Line 6 would update the DL4 with the different platform cause it *is* different. That would make the perfect delay in the DL4 IMO. BUT, the good thing is that the lack of presets on the Echopark doesn’t bother me. On the rare occasions that I need extra presets, I just grab my DL4 and put it at the end of my board.