Have we been duped?

[BrianWampler]

Originally Posted by missing_dave

(the second time this has been quoted) perfect.. thats what this place ...provokes,breeds? and what it is for..very pleased to see this thread have so much depth..and no arguing! woo!

would love to hear more from some other builders on this as as we know some of the "new" favorites in the pedal world are made to do the job of some classics but..well better,still keeping the "guitar tone" sounding like a guitar..

interested in what they think about..just guitar tone,instead of them having to defend or just talk about what chip or buffer there pedal has...

I think my viewpoint is a bit different than most booteek builders. While I do think the sd-1/tubescreamer type circuits have their place, I have no interest in taking the same circuit and doing nothing but add better parts. I'm suprised by just HOW MANY clones of circuits are out there. I'd prefer to come up with different methods of solving the same problem... building a "different" type of mousetrap I guess.

As far as the sd-1, I like it for fendery type amps, but I'm not a fan of that type of tone control/low pass filtering system. I like a Baxandall eq circuit on the tail of the soft clipping circuit, sounds very good!

bw

[3 Mile Stone]

Originally Posted by daddyo

If I may offer an analogy. Imagine if TGP was a gardening forum, we'd be obsessing about the alloy of the hand shovels and ignoring the blooms on the roses.

Because exploring the possibilities of their relevance can be fun!

[Felixun1]

I agree with Mullet Kingdom completely. I'd never pay more than $150 for a dirt pedal. I've got a $60 BSIAB2 i need to assemble, also plan to check out that bad Monkey one of these days. Currently have a used Keeley mod bd-2, paid $100 for it, as good as any low-medium OD I've every heard.

[zachary vex]

Originally Posted by MikeMcK

I'm not getting this (and I'm being cautious here because I know the poster is an amp guy)...

You can certainly do class AB with discrete transistors, just as you can bias or clip two gain elements in an op-amp for non-symmetrical compression/clipping, right? Isn't that exactly what the SD-1 does? For that matter you can use a part of an op-amp to do a single-ended gain...

I know that the beauty of an op-amp (from a general engineer's point of view is that the amplification factor on each gain element in a single op-amp is near identical... unlike using discrete transistors, even from the same batch. But if you're relying on amp factors to be different from transistor to transistor, you'd kind of be rolling the dice. Besides, are there really overdrive pedals that operate strictly in class A?

Op Amps... Class A?:

Op amps (which are chips) are filled with hundreds of bipolar/fet transistors that are organized into a push-pull class AB scheme. You can't use them in "Class A" mode because they're inherently class AB on the inside. You're correct in saying that Class AB can be achieved with discrete transistors. That's done pretty frequently when you want to achieve any kind of power with small signal transistors, such as driving a speaker. Otherwise, for most small-signal situations, Class A is easiest and sounds sweetest.

You can use an op amp in such a way that it appears from the outside to be configured as "single ended" or class A, but the processing inside the chip is all class AB so that makes the circuit class AB in my book.

I'm not familiar with the topology of the SD-1. I've never looked at the schematic for any Boss overdrive... I don't find them in the least interesting. Personal preference thing, really.

Gain variance:

Gain variance isn't terribly important in overdrives. If transistor gain varies a small percentage, it hardly affects the sound of the overdrive at all. Most modern MOSFETs (which is all I use for my overdrives) are pretty darned uniform. I've never found one that was more than a couple of percent different from any other one.

Class A overdrives:

My Box of Rock and Box of Metal (and all of my boosters) are all class A, all the way through, with no chips in the audio path (although there's a chip in the BOM that controls the gate only.)

I'm certain there are a LOT more all-class A overdrives out there. I have no doubt that the Mena products and Blackstone device are class A, but I've never asked or looked at schematics. Just from the knowledge of how discrete circuits are usually designed, class A is simplest and tends to be where people head. There's another type of circuit that's quite common in boosters and overdrives that uses a dual fet "mu amp" configuration, which few designers realize is actually class AB push-pull. It's a high-gain contraption... it appears in quite a number of famous DIY pedals on the diystompbox forum and others. I shy away from that thing... I've never been a fan of class AB unless it's at the output of a tube amp.

[amigo30]

The other day I pulled 2 pedals off a shelf where they've been gathering dust for over a year.

One was an SD-1, and I found I had a great time playing with it for about an hour.

The other one was a Line-6 Uber Metal, that I had previously deemed a complete and utter piece of shit. After some knob dialing, I found a tone I just loved out of it, and went off for another hour of playing.

Both of those pedals were a lot better than I remembered them.

I still don't get the Bad Monkey though.

[MikeMcK]

Originally Posted by zachary vex

Op Amps... Class A?

Actually, I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that... thanks, though.

[wildschwein]

Originally Posted by Dandy13

Your ears will always be the best judge. Don't give in to peer pressure

You're right; I'm digging my Dano and Behringer pedals.

[Lightningrt]

My dissatisfaction with my original SD-1 [partly] caused my journey into boutique territory. I moved through TS style pedals, modded and un modded, through Timmy and finally [for the moment] an OCD. I sold my SD1 years ago, but would be interested to compare it to say, the Cusack Screamer I have sitting in my garage.

I found that the original SD1 coloured the tone too much - especially in the mids. Perhaps it's a mids thing rather than an SD1 thing I'm not getting.

[jstone]

Originally Posted by MikeMcK

Actually, I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that... thanks, though.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I remember the Harris CA3080 to be class A but again that is a OTA.

[screamingduck]

Originally Posted by Craise

This is what I've always said...spend your money on a better amp and you'll get better tone... It blows my mind when people run $1200 worth of pedals into their $300 Fender Blues Jr Or Peavey Classic 30... You would get much better tone having a $1200 amp and running $300 worth of pedals into it...imho.

It's funny to watch people buy and sell pedals left and right...but they never mess with upgrading their speakers, Pickups or tubes...which have lots of effect on your final tone.

As for cheap pedals I've always thought that 1 or 2 cheapo boss/ibanez effects are fine... It's when you start using 3,4,5 more they really start to suck tone...imho

That was my main problem before the days of true bypass pedals. The tone suck and added noise of having three or more pedals was too much to bear and the idea of using a noise gate on a stage rig for your guitar was a no-brainer that your stage rig was way too noisy. Now I happily have my Boss DM-2 on my pedalboard and the buffer is has does a wonderful job countering the TB pedals.
A big reason I don't mind paying the extra money for handmade U.S.A. pedals is that this country is slowly heading in a real bad direction due to the "Wall-Mart made is China" crap everyone is so eager to buy. I'd rather my money go to the builders here in the US that are continuing doing what made this country great in the first place-high quality products that last a long time and are backed by valid fair warranties. You certainly get what you pay for and I prefer paying a little more at first and getting something that in the long run turns out to be a much better deal.

[Seegs]

Originally Posted by mc2

I dunno-I really couldn't stomach the SD-1. It was to bright and a bit fizzy to my ears. I took 'er back for a refund. Granted it was a short-lived test and a "new" one (2003 or 2004), but man I just couldn't dial it in.

+1...I hate fizz eg SD-1 or the Blues Driver which both had more fizz than anything in my trials...I also don't buy/keep pedals cause of the price I keep em when they add something positive to my tone...

I've also had the mods done to the el-cheapos and also modded them myself and although better it still wasn't enough for me to keep them...

I've been through the cheap and the expensive and all the cheaps are gone...coincidence? never really gave it much thought...I keep what sounds and feels good and so far the $30 pedals and their modded variations havn't inspired me in the least...if they did I'd be happy to use and keep em...can't polish a turd I say

Chow,
Seegs

[XKnight]

I went through the boutique pedal frenzy and am now done. There are some wonderful sounding pedals out there from the boutique makers and there are also a bunch of turds. I've decided that my money is better spent in other areas. I'm down to 3 pedals from well over a dozen and have no desire for anymore. I usually just play with my guitar plugged directly into my amps now.

[Uma Floresta]

Originally Posted by Seegs

I've been through the cheap and the expensive and all the cheaps are gone...coincidence? never really gave it much thought...I keep what sounds and feels good and so far the $30 pedals and their modded variations havn't inspired me in the least...if they did I'd be happy to use and keep em...can't polish a turd I say

Chow,
Seegs

You can definitely polish a turd. A Landgraff DO and a Dano Fab Overdrive are basically the same circuits, with a few differences here and there. The Dano Fab Overdrive is very muffly, not very good IMO. I doubt it sounds much like the LDO. It's not whether or not a turd can be polished - it can. I guess it's how you polish it that counts.

[Seegs]

well Uma you're way more into circuits and the DIY thing than I am...what I meant by my statement was the whether they're modded or not...a Boss SD-1 or Blues Driver is not something I care to use...and it's not based on the price...

Chow,
Seegs

[Zero]

I got an SD-1 off a guy on CL for $25. The thing was mint with box and all of the papers. What I like about it is that I can turn up the gain knob a bit & it sounds better than with the gain off. By contrast, the TS9(DX) and Bad Monkey I have only sound good to me if the gain/drive is at zero. The SD-1 seems a little "hairier" than the TS9 types.