Help Needed - Multi Track Digital Recorders

[Bob Burt]

Hey folks, I would like to ask for your opinions on what is the best bang for the buck in digital recorders.

I am interested in a rig that will handle 6-8 mic inputs so I can carry it around to do live recordings. I have been reading and there are a lot of units out there. I am wanting a unit I can do the rough tracks on and then save to CD as a wav file etc for final editing on the PC.

I am very ignorant as to the recording aspect of things so I am hoping some of you can give me some guidance. I have looked at the Tascam 788 amd the Boss BD 1600CD... Both appear to be decent rigs.

I am just asking for a few ideas if anyone has a moment or is so inclined. Thanks in advance for your assistance.

Bob Burt

[david eaton]

I have the Yamaha AW16g, two XLR inputs , 6 1/4" inputs and you can record 8 channels at once. It's a very nice unit.

[david eaton]

Let me add and say that we recorded one of our rehearsals with this unit and used 6 inputs right out of the board (so they were all line level) and was amazed at the sound quality and ease of operation.

[y2stevo]

I have a Fostex VF-16 (the older model to the current cd burning equipped VF-160 and i believe a newer model is out VF 160 EX)
And I find it just great for recording live and Seperate..It can record 8 tracks smutaniously , but it only has 2 xlr inputs and 8 analog inputs (you can use all 8 analog inputs or 6 analog and the 2 xlr inputs at once) I cant comment on the cd feature on the newer models but if there anything like the VF-16 there simple to use..

Definitly check out the Fostex as its just great, After only about a week i could do all sorts of advanced editing and pasting but for live situations that wouldnt be needed so for live its simple..All 16 channel has a seperate 3 band eq where you can change the frequency,shape and gain of each and an eq for the master channel too..My VF-16 has a 7 Gig hard Drive and even at that i still dont know how id use it all up, the newer ones have 20 Gig so there no shortage of space..

If you want to ask anymore q's on it just ask

y2stevo

[Bob Burt]

Thanks for the responses guys. I have a better understanding of what I need after hearing what has been said and doing more research.

I am still looking at units and deciding.

Much appreciated

Bob Burt

[ridecat]

Bob, let us know what you go with, as I'm in the same boat. It's great that there are so many options out there these days, but overwhelming at the same time.

[Kiwi]

Stuff to look for in any digital multi-track:

- How many XLR and direct inputs? I wanted at least 8, for live recording.

- How many separate channels? Some of the "16-track" models have paired stereo channels on two, four or six of those 16 tracks. I wanted 16 sliders.

- What's the hard drive capacity? I wanted to basically never run out of disk space.

- What's the backup and export ability? I wanted to be able to back up songs (as track data, not as stereo mixes) on a CD, and export songs (again as track data) via CD as .wav formats.

- Do you want to mix, master and burn a CD internally, or are you going to export all the data and/or make a CD on an external unit? Do you want or need an optical out, for that?

- Ask about mix automation. You're gonna want that, to automate all your slider level movements at various parts of a song. It may be static ("scenes"), or at the upper price range, fully automated with moving sliders as you play back. This is a critical feature to have and to know how to use - it can literally bring life to a song.

- Figure out if you need or want guitar amp-sims, and if you want drum boxes, as part of the recorder. I didn't, since I have POD and a drum box that I know how to program.

I upgraded my home studio rig last year to a Korg D1600. 40 meg drive; eight inputs at once; 16 separate tracks; touch screen interface; mastering effects; scenes for automated mixing; ability to burn a mixed CD internally; can back up on CD and also export as .wav files if you want to put the song onto a CD for further computer-based mixing or mastering; cost was about $1400 new, and way less if you can find a clean used one.

One more thing: Look around and check out the user support forums for these units. The D1600 users forum, for example, is huge and incredibly helpful for both newbie and experienced users.

All these units are at once simple to operate (if you have some existing multi-track knowledge base) and very complicated (because they have a LOT of features and options).

The users forums can really help you get answers, fast. If your unit locks up or crashes - and that happens - the better user forums have members who work for the manufacturers. (Tech support via public embarrassment, is how I view it.)

I'd also check out the various home recording forums - lots of support and info there, much like there is here in Gear Land!

Kiwi

[SteveVHT]

I hate to spam the thread, but I can give you a killer deal on a brand new Yamaha AW4416.
It's just way too much for what I need. I bought it for my band a few months ago, and we broke up the following week.
You can email me if you're interested.
SteveVHT@aol.com
Steve
I have excellent references, and 100% pos on Ebay.

[Randy]

Kiwi had some great points above. All of those things are good to watch out for. I would add that you may want to see if you can bypass the built-in preamps on whatever unit you go with. You'll probably want to get some outboard pres at some point and if you can't bypass the internal ones all the money you spend on a high quality pre goes out the window.

It would also be really nice to have a monitor output so you can buy a cheap PC monitor and didn't have to stare at that tiny LCD screen for hours on end - that gets tiring. Some kind of CPU interface would be great too.

I bought an Akai DPS16 a year or so ago and am really happy with it. The quality and ease of use are fantastic. Akai has stopped making it for some reason, although they still make the DPS24. That Korg sounds promising.

[KungFuLio]

I'm surprised no ones suggested a laptop and an MOTU 828. You can end up with reasonable results and everything is there for you to dive in on the MAC or PC right away.

[GM1]

Originally posted by Kiwi
Stuff to look for in any digital multi-track:

- How many XLR and direct inputs? I wanted at least 8, for live recording.

- How many separate channels? Some of the "16-track" models have paired stereo channels on two, four or six of those 16 tracks. I wanted 16 sliders.

- What's the hard drive capacity? I wanted to basically never run out of disk space.

- What's the backup and export ability? I wanted to be able to back up songs (as track data, not as stereo mixes) on a CD, and export songs (again as track data) via CD as .wav formats.

- Do you want to mix, master and burn a CD internally, or are you going to export all the data and/or make a CD on an external unit? Do you want or need an optical out, for that?

- Ask about mix automation. You're gonna want that, to automate all your slider level movements at various parts of a song. It may be static ("scenes"), or at the upper price range, fully automated with moving sliders as you play back. This is a critical feature to have and to know how to use - it can literally bring life to a song.

- Figure out if you need or want guitar amp-sims, and if you want drum boxes, as part of the recorder. I didn't, since I have POD and a drum box that I know how to program.

I upgraded my home studio rig last year to a Korg D1600. 40 meg drive; eight inputs at once; 16 separate tracks; touch screen interface; mastering effects; scenes for automated mixing; ability to burn a mixed CD internally; can back up on CD and also export as .wav files if you want to put the song onto a CD for further computer-based mixing or mastering; cost was about $1400 new, and way less if you can find a clean used one.

One more thing: Look around and check out the user support forums for these units. The D1600 users forum, for example, is huge and incredibly helpful for both newbie and experienced users.

All these units are at once simple to operate (if you have some existing multi-track knowledge base) and very complicated (because they have a LOT of features and options).

The users forums can really help you get answers, fast. If your unit locks up or crashes - and that happens - the better user forums have members who work for the manufacturers. (Tech support via public embarrassment, is how I view it.)

I'd also check out the various home recording forums - lots of support and info there, much like there is here in Gear Land!

Kiwi

Trust me, the above post is right on the money. You may think some of the stuff Kiwi mentions is not important but as soon as you start doing any serious recording everything he mentions will become an important issue. I have a Roland 2480 does everything mentined above and a lot more. When I first got it did not know anything about recording, big learning curve and on line boards are a big part of the process ( they are very helpful)

[jokerjkny]

i dig Korg's D16 and the Yamaha stuff.

course, cant ever go wrong with a Roland V series.

also, not sure if its been mentioned, but keep an eye out as to how many tracks you can record at once. some may have a total of 16 discreet tracks, but end up only powerful enough to record 4 tracks. its usually in the finest print, so buyer beware.

[ricoh]

Originally posted by Randy
Kiwi had some great points above. All of those things are good to watch out for. I would add that you may want to see if you can bypass the built-in preamps on whatever unit you go with. You'll probably want to get some outboard pres at some point and if you can't bypass the internal ones all the money you spend on a high quality pre goes out the window.

It would also be really nice to have a monitor output so you can buy a cheap PC monitor and didn't have to stare at that tiny LCD screen for hours on end - that gets tiring. Some kind of CPU interface would be great too.

I bought an Akai DPS16 a year or so ago and am really happy with it. The quality and ease of use are fantastic. Akai has stopped making it for some reason, although they still make the DPS24. That Korg sounds promising.

The ability to interface pre-amps is important. Does this unit allow this?{ DPS 24} What others?

[jzucker]

Originally posted by KungFuLio
I'm surprised no ones suggested a laptop and an MOTU 828. You can end up with reasonable results and everything is there for you to dive in on the MAC or PC right away.

Just don't expect too much from motu's windows drivers.

[fatang]

All the units mentioned and others have relative strengths and weaknesses: Korg has a small footprint and pretty intuitive operation; Roland has VGA out, a new plug in card and i/o expansion on one model; Yamaha is solid all the way around; Zoom has all its controls on the panel; Akai has a pile of features; Tascam hits at a great price point.

You absolutely need to be aware of effects limitations and total track count at higher sample rates. As far as using mic pres, I've had most clients simply adjust the gain or use a line input. Primative but pretty effective.

The 828mkII is a great swiss army knife but the new Edirol fw box is really nice too. Only 1/2 a rack space, 2 more ins and outs and $200 or so less.

Robert