please tell me about the old bandmasters and showmans

[timeforheroes]

a local is selling a few old 60's bandmasters and showmans...

before i go check em out.. any opinions on them... they are both heads. the pics look pretty clean too....

anything?

[335guy]

Depends on the years. The Fender Bandmaster started as a combo in 1953 I believe. Then in 1961, it went to a head and separate speaker cabinet, similar to the Bassman. To my ears, the big difference was the early Bandmaster had tremelo and it was 40 watts. It remained at 40 watts till a silverfaced version came around with 50 watts. They made a reverb version starting in 1968. Of course, the older, combos are the most valuble. The blonds and blackface are very nice, IMO. The early silverfaced aren't bad but did get circuit design change in mid 1968.

The Fender Showman and Dual-Showman have always been head version amps and production began in 1960. The Showman sported (4) 6L6 power tubes to produce 100 watts, which was lowered to 85 watts in 1963. A Showman head also had tremelo. The difference between Showmans and Dual Showmans were the size of the speaker cabinets, with Dual Showmans using (2) JBL D-130 or D-140's. Dual Showman amps and JBL loaded speaker cabinets were a popular bass rig in the 60's. But guitarists were also known to use JBL loaded Showman rigs. Both Jimi Hendrix used Fender Showmans occassionally, as did Mike Bloomfield. The Beach Boys always used them, as did many others. The Showman is LOUD and CLEAN, similar to a Fender Twin Reverb but without the reverb. The Bandmaster is a typical Fender sounding amp, fairly clean sounding with nice sparkle ( it's no Vox though ). Both are good, ulilitarian amps. You'll find you'll probably need to use some pedals unless you want clean with no effects, like reverb. They are easier to maintain being a hand wired circuit. Pretty much no frills amps with the Showman sporting double the power. You will NOT get any Marshall grind or overdrive with either of these amps without pedals.

[BluesForDan]

box them up and send them to me for disposal. Bandmasters tended to be two 6L6s and Showmans four 6L6s. They also tended to be 8 ohms for BM and 4 for SM.

Showmans also came in higher wattage form called Dual Showman, which were essentially hi-power Twin Reverbs in head form.

The master volume form of either are not that great, but if you're talking '60s, then they will be non-master volume. Think big, clean (especially the showman) and real loud. Not a bedroom or angry apartment neighbor friendly amp.

[ROKY]

I have an early ' 68 Showman(Silver face/drip edge) that I really love.

Big solid cleans tones at moderate volumes -the real deal classic Fender
tones(natch !).

NOW .. it can get some nice gritty crunch without diming the amp,
believe it or not.

HOW ?

Turn up the mid control substantially(past 6), turn the treble down to
5(still plenty of treble, just not as sparkly) and keep the bass on the
low side. You'll need a humbucker or P-90 guitar but I think set this
way it's very easy to get some nice grind out of a Showman .

..and when you turn the mids back down and run the treble and bass
at say 6-7,& 3-4 you have your classic BF sound, again.

If you want to run it with pedals it's a great platform, and of course
we live in an era where great overdrives are everywhere, so you can
have a great Fender clean and step on a few boxes for various dirt
tones.

I like to run the mids at about 5 if I'm using pedals so that they meld
with the amp more naturally, and the cleans are still very Fendery, but
maybe not as mid scooped .. sometimes 4 on the mids, depending.

I'd get the Showman over the Bandmaster because it has the very
useful mid control, and it's a more solid base for pedals.

I Showman in good working order is one of the best deals in Fender
amps, IMHO - you can get a lot of real-world use out of them once
you experiment with how you want to set it up.

[blackba]

Check this site for vintage fenders, it is very helpful (nice to see if back online).

http://www.ampwares.com/

[voodoosound]

Dual SHowman are not a higher wattage the only difference between a Showman and the DUal showman is the tap on the output transformer. Showman are 8 ohm Duals are 4.

No other differences at all in these amps with the exception of the word Dual on the front.

[kimock]

Guys, check your impedance info.

[ROKY]

Originally Posted by voodoosound

Dual SHowman are not a higher wattage the only difference between a Showman and the DUal showman is the tap on the output transformer. Showman are 4 ohm Duals are 8.

The opposite,actually .

[kimock]

Post 3 as well, check.

[jtm622]

I used Fender Bassman, Bandmaster, and Showman amps in several of the early bands I was in... Like what has been posted previously, the differences were:
The Bandmaster head was simply a Bassman head with an added tremolo circuit (an extra 12AT7 tube, I think), and the Showman was simply a four 6L6 version of the two 6L6 Bandmaster. They were all basically the SAME amp...
(Think 50 watt and 100 watt Marshall heads of the SAME model; but the 50 having two EL34's and the 100 having four EL34's.)
All of those Fenders were very rugged and very dependable... That said, the Bassman was THE workhorse amp used by most bands back in the day.

[jzilla]

i have a 60s blackface showman. love it! tons of clean headroom and a great sound. i find the normal channel to sound much fuller than the vibrato channel and use that most of the time. great deal! i got it for $350 but spent another 350 getting it to its peak performance. still, 700 for LOUD, beautiful blackface tone...

[Gris]

Totally diferent animals. Showman is clean, clean, clean and loud, loud, loud. Showmans run 4x6L6 so they're like 85 watts or so.

Bandmaster head is supposed to be 40 watts but sounds more like 30-35. Best buy out there IMO. BF can be had for $500. Make sure it still has the blue molded caps inside. BF Bandmasters don't really break up much. But when you hit that sweet spot, about 7-8, it's a very smooth, light overdrive - much better than a DR IMO.

Both take pedals well.

Showman has much tighter bottom end due to bigger iron. Both have SS rectos. Bandmaster sounds kinda like a Lux, but a tad harder/badder.

I love BF BMs... :-)

[voodoosound]

Originally Posted by ROKY

The opposite,actually .

Yes you are correct my bad. I have 2 of each and still typed it worng lol!!

[rockstarjay]

All of those Fenders were very rugged and very dependable... That said, the Bassman was THE workhorse amp used by most bands back in the day.

The Bassman and JCM 800 still are big workhorses for rock bands.

Reliable? Yes. Both my Bassman 50's are older than me. I love them.

The Bandmaster head was simply a Bassman head with an added tremolo circuit (an extra 12AT7 tube, I think), and the Showman was simply a four 6L6 version of the two 6L6 Bandmaster. They were all basically the SAME amp...
(Think 50 watt and 100 watt Marshall heads of the SAME model; but the 50 having two EL34's and the 100 having four EL34's.)

The bandmaster has a little transformer, the Bassman has a massive one (esp. for a ~50watt amp) which is to me the big difference.

before i go check em out.. any opinions on them... they are both heads. the pics look pretty clean too....

BF & SF Bassman= Big bad, chunky, and loud.

BF SF Bandmaster= Sweet, smooth, and 'singing' because you reach transformer compression rather quickly. You either love it or hate it.

The Showman/Dual showman (the terms only make sense to me when you see the cabs they were packaged with)= Big, loud, clean, huge Xformer, massive headroom.

I think they're incredible, but if you want 'early breakup' look elsewhere.

If you have chops and play loud you'll love the the showman. If you want a low volume amp go with the bandmaster.

[BluesForDan]

as far as the Dual showman, according to the fender amp guide, the 66-67 silver showmans were 85 watts, as were the blackface. the 68-76 dual were 100 watts, and the 77-8X were 135. These were very close to the twins reverbs of their day, if I am not mistaken.

let us know how those heads turn out, there's a master volume Dual at a shop near me. It is ok, but rather beat. I'd rather have the non-master volume. I'd settle for either the bandmaster or the showman.

The real key is getting cabs with the JBL D-130s. I've got a speaker, need a cab (and the amp).