Anyone have some good resources for studying rhythm/time signatures?

[Natural Mystic]

I'm pretty well versed in harmony and the study musical intervals but my knowledge of time signatures and the general mechanics rhythm is definitely lacking. Can anyone recommend some good resources for brushing up on the basics and beyond?

[kimock]

Originally Posted by Natural Mystic

I'm pretty well versed in harmony and the study musical intervals but my knowledge of time signatures and the general mechanics rhythm is definitely lacking. Can anyone recommend some good resources for brushing up on the basics and beyond?

http://www.rhythmweb.com/shed/

This stuff is basic, and fun too.
I didn't really have much success internalizing any performance useful rhythmic concepts until I started trying to tap, play, sing etc some of these bell patterns. You can get a lot of mileage out of just a little clave!

peace

[snacker]

http://www.lulu.com/content/677233
a bulgarian fakebook - free download - really cool stuff - a lot of odd time signatures (15/16, 11/16 etc.) and interesting groupings (3+2+3/4)

[stevel]

Originally Posted by Natural Mystic

I'm pretty well versed in harmony and the study musical intervals but my knowledge of time signatures and the general mechanics rhythm is definitely lacking. Can anyone recommend some good resources for brushing up on the basics and beyond?

As a music instructor at a university, I've noticed the primary area most students (except percussionists) are lacking in is rhythm. In fact, I dare say that many of the professionals I deal with have very poor rhythm compared to their other areas (like note accuracy, technique, tone, etc.)

It's my personal belief that in order to "get" rhythm, meter, etc. you have to really "internalize" it. To do that, you actually have to think about how everything relates. I know this sounds a little condescending, and I don't mean it to be, but you don't just need to count, or feel it - you'll never internalize it that way (mentally). You need to count, and *understand* what it is you're counting.

Here's an example:

How many beats does a half note get?

I'll give you a second (scroll down)...
































most people say 2 beats. Wrong. A half note only gets 2 beats in 4/4 meter.

Here's another one:

How many beats are in 6/8 meter?

Again, I'll wait (scroll down)






























Most people say 6. Nope. 2.

6/8 is two beats per measure.

The beat unit is a dotted note value.

Most people never get this - and often refuse to accept it - "but my piano teacher [who didn't study anywhere] told me when I took lessons [at age 6] that 6/8 meter has 6 beats [and now I refuse to believe anything else]"

[are read between the lines statements :-)]

Sure, you can play music in 6/8. But you will never *really* understand it until you can make these types of associations.

Things like this help you with why 7/8 is often 2+2+3 rather than just "7", and how triplets and duplets work, etc. I know everyone can *play* triplets, but most of the time, they haven't thought much about where they come from.

Furthermore, there needs to be a desire (which you seem to have) to *want* to play rhythm accurately (and understand it). Most people are so "note-oriented" that they spend all their time trying to play the correct pitch. Where it falls *pitch-wise* has become more important to them than where it falls *time-wise*!

The most wonderful resource you could ever hope to find is right in front of you (well, yes, the computer too) - Music. Listen to music. Count it. Find out what beat, what portion of the beat, what division of what value, what the durations are, etc. of every single note you hear. Write them out. Play them back.

Practice playing 16th notes. Then practice dropping out the 2nd note of the 4 note group. Then the last. Then the first. Then the 1st and 4th - every combination you can think of.

So when someone says "it's on the and of 4" you know what they mean and can play it (you may already know, I'm just giving an example).

I have students in our ear-training classes - you give them a dictation example, and they spend all the time trying to get the pitches. Then you look at the rhythm and they've to 3, 5 or 7.25 beats in a measure. It's horrific.

Good Luck, HTH,
Steve

[stevel]

Originally Posted by Natural Mystic

I'm pretty well versed in harmony and the study musical intervals but my knowledge of time signatures and the general mechanics rhythm is definitely lacking. Can anyone recommend some good resources for brushing up on the basics and beyond?

Oh, I'll add that even in the theory course textbooks we use, only one chapter is devoted to rhythm! Even for them it's an afterthought.

Oh, and of course, you can always start here and see where it leads you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meter_(music)


Steve

[Kendrick68]

"How many beats does a half note get?

I'll give you a second (scroll down)...

most people say 2 beats. Wrong. A half note only gets 2 beats in 4/4 meter."



That's kind of a trick question without first defining the time signature. The way you phrased the question made no indication of time signature therefore 2 beats would be the correct answer because 4/4 is also known as "Common Time". Without any contraindication it is entirely reasonable and customary to use common time, or 4/4, as the time signature.





"Here's another one:

How many beats are in 6/8 meter?

Again, I'll wait (scroll down)

Most people say 6. Nope. 2.

6/8 is two beats per measure.

The beat unit is a dotted note value."



There are 6 beats per measure in 6/8 time. When reading any time signature the top number indicates the number of beats in a measure and the bottom number indicates the duration of those beats.

6/8 simply means 6 8th notes per measure.

There are not 2 beats per measure in 6/8. Many times players are taught to think of the meter, or feel the pulse, in a duple fashion for simplicities sake however the 2 rhythmical pulses simply serve as a way to keep your bearing while in 6/8 or similar time signatures that have a triple rather than duple meter.

The player can think of it as two beats if that makes it easier, but the time signature is still 6 beats per measure with the eighth note the duration of the beat.

[liveone]

I couldn't agree more!

I've been playing guitar for 25 years and playing drums for 2 and before that I played piano for 10. If I were to guide a young person into the world of music, I'd definitely teach them to play drums first. Getting the rhythm correct is just as important or even more so than getting the pitch correct like you say.

[SyKrash]

"The encyclopedia of reading rhythms"

great book

[Mandoboy]

Rhythmic Training- Robert Starer
Modern Text Reading - Louis Bellson
Odd Time Signatures- Louis Bellson
The Reading Drummer- David Vose
Factorial Rhythm for All Instruments-Mick Goodrick

The above are good as there are no pitches involved, so you can concentrate on the deciphering of rhythmic notation.

Guitar oriented:

Time for the Future- Brett Willmott (excellent and creative)

[Natural Mystic]

Thanks everybody, I've got some reading to do now!

[stevel]

That's kind of a trick question without first defining the time signature. The way you phrased the question made no indication of time signature therefore 2 beats would be the correct answer because 4/4 is also known as "Common Time". Without any contraindication it is entirely reasonable and customary to use common time, or 4/4, as the time signature.

1. Why the chip on your shoulder?

2. Not mentioning the time signature first is the point - notes are valueless until the meter is known.

3. A secondary point is, everyone assumes common time. There *are* other meters.

There are 6 beats per measure in 6/8 time. When reading any time signature the top number indicates the number of beats in a measure and the bottom number indicates the duration of those beats.

6/8 simply means 6 8th notes per measure.

There are not 2 beats per measure in 6/8. Many times players are taught to think of the meter, or feel the pulse, in a duple fashion for simplicities sake however the 2 rhythmical pulses simply serve as a way to keep your bearing while in 6/8 or similar time signatures that have a triple rather than duple meter.

You may want to read the wiki article on Meter, especially the section about Simple and Compound meters. 6/8 *IS* only 2 beats per measure. You've been taught, or learned wrong. It's OK. It's a common misunderstanding (again, my point in bringing it up).

The player can think of it as two beats if that makes it easier, but the time signature is still 6 beats per measure with the eighth note the duration of the beat.

Or rather, the player can think of it as six beats if that make it easier.

In compound meters, like 6/8, 9/8, 12/8, etc. the upper number tells you how many *divisions* there are in a measure, not how many *beats* are in a measure. 6/8 is "two beats per measure, and a dotted 8th note gets a beat". It's a subtle distinction, and one you may not care to consider, but it is there nonetheless.

Steve

[dkaplowitz]

Originally Posted by Mandoboy

Modern Text Reading - Louis Bellson
Odd Time Signatures- Louis Bellson

For me the 4/4 one is a must-have/must-study. The odd time one is good, I have it, but honestly I don't feel I've graduated from the first one (though I'm pretty good with odd meter from the music I listen to). I don't feel so bad about that since Tomo says he still works out of the 4/4 Bellson book regularly, and he's got some pretty ill pocket.

[Tomo]

Originally Posted by dkaplowitz

For me the 4/4 one is a must-have/must-study. The odd time one is good, I have it, but honestly I don't feel I've graduated from the first one (though I'm pretty good with odd meter from the music I listen to). I don't feel so bad about that since Tomo says he still works out of the 4/4 Bellson book regularly, and he's got some pretty ill pocket.

Hi Dave,

I still practice on page 4! (that book) and swing groove with Rt 3 7 on slow tempo. Rhythm is very deep. I am trying to get better everyday. Thanks!

Tomo

[shigihara]

Originally Posted by snacker

http://www.lulu.com/content/677233
a bulgarian fakebook - free download - really cool stuff - a lot of odd time signatures (15/16, 11/16 etc.) and interesting groupings (3+2+3/4)

thank you !!!

[Ooogie]

Originally Posted by dsimon665

Here are some other maybe not as basic rhythm sites:
http://www.petelockett.com/lessons/index.html

http://www.ronanguilfoyle.com/press.html


I want to learn this one:
http://www.drummerworld.com/Drumclin...vegaddmoz.html

There are some great resources in this thread, thanks to all for sharing. I was looking through the essays on Ronan's site and he has a great article on "The Art & Science of Time"...

http://www.ronanguilfoyle.com/press-group-29.html