Versatility of the Nova System

[Bluesman 82]

Hi all,

I'm a newbie here and yes, I mistyped my user name

I'm thinking of buying the Nova System but I'm not sure how versatile it is.
I don't have any single pedals so I thought maybe in terms of versatility it's better to go with the M13.
From what I read in a previous thread about this topic it seems that the Nova is on a different level than the M13 in terms of sound.
Therefore I thought on buying it and add some 1 or 2 analog pedals when I have the budget to buy them.
That said, it's only for a home use... do you have any recommendations or insights? Do you think the M13 is a better choice?

Thanks

[teetopkram]

My experience -

The M13's reverbs, delays, filters, and some modulations are terrific. The comps are OK, the ODs/distortions are hit or miss. A couple of ODs were really good to my ears and I had fun. It has a looper, which the TC Nova system doesn't. This unit also allows you to put some effects before your amp's preamp and some effects afterwards. So, you could put a comp and an OD in EFX banks 1 and 2 and have them going into your amp's front-end input, and then have a chorus and delay in EFX banks 3 and 4 and have them routed through your amp's EFX loop. Downside to this unit is only 4 effects at once max.

The TC Nova system sounded slightly better to my ears in the delays, reverbs, and mods. It's OD and distortion is better IMO because its a true analog unit, separate from everything else which is digital. While I don't believe it has as many different types of reverbs, delays, etc. as the M13, there are enough on there covering all the bases. It also has a pitch shifter which the M13 doesn't I believe. Interestingly, I was most let down by the TC's chorus, which didn't sound much like it's famed SCF+. The real downside (and deal killer to me) is that unlike the M13 you cannot partial out some effects to go into your amp's preamp (e.g., comps. distortions, phaser) and other effects to go through your amp's EFX loop. It's all or nothing. You CAN use the Nova in your effects loop, just doing so will disengage the distortion and leave you with all the other effects.

So, if you were planning on buying a couple of dirt boxes and comps to use out front, and just put either unit in the EFX loop, either one will work and do lots of wonderful things. The added flexibility of the M13 is a great plus, however...just some/many don't like "modeled" distortion/OD so it ends up being a wash.

And in terms of quality...one would expect, given Line 6's history with the Pod X3 Live, that the TC Nova would be a step above. Just the opposite IMO...when the Nova system was first released there were several bugs in the software, glitches, very unhappy customers etc., I think those have all been worked out, but I don't seem to recall the same number of complaints with the M13. The footswitches on the M13 are still the micro switches connected directly to the board, but I don't recall many problems with this so far, but I could be wrong.

Hope this helps.

[Bluesman 82]

Thanks for the thorough overview!
You convinced me to stick with my first choice, which was the M13.
I actually thought the difference in the sound quality between the units is so great that I must take the Nova, even if it's less versatile.
Reading your comment, and the M13 reviews in Harmony Central convinced me that not all the effects would be top notch but that I can definitely expect most of them to sound great. As for your explanation with the 4 cable method and setting the effects in front of the preamp and afterwards- I never tried it but I assume it delivers better sounds, right?
Regarding the O/D, I can always buy a good analog pedal and connect it to the unit.

Thanks again, that was very helpful

[teetopkram]

Originally Posted by Bluseman 82

Thanks for the thorough overview!
You convinced me to stick with my first choice, which was the M13.
I actually thought the difference in the sound quality between the units is so great that I must take the Nova, even if it's less versatile.
Reading your comment, and the M13 reviews in Harmony Central convinced me that not all the effects would be top notch but that I can definitely expect most of them to sound great. As for your explanation with the 4 cable method and setting the effects in front of the preamp and afterwards- I never tried it but I assume it delivers better sounds, right?
Regarding the O/D, I can always buy a good analog pedal and connect it to the unit.

Thanks again, that was very helpful

Yes, the 4cm works fine with the M13, at least it did on my amp...there's some differences between amps that use parallel vs. series loops, or that have line level input/outputs only, so you may want to check into that.

The great thing about the M13 is that it has 12 different scenes you can set-up, each scene contains up to three preset effects in each of four banks...so that's 144 preset pedals at your disposal. AND, you can vary the effects loop routing separately for each scene. GREAT flexibility.

[Bluesman 82]

I really appreciate comments

[GAD]

TC build quality blows line6 away. The usability and user experience on the Nova is top notch. I was ready to buy one, but they had just come out and I couldn't get one used. Ended up buying a G-system used instead.

As far as versatility goes, you should ask yourself how much versatility do you *really* need?

I come from playing guitar in the 70's and 80's, when I bought a couple of pedals, and made them fit into what I was playing as best I could. We are SO spoiled now that we (myself included), want every possible option available to us at all times. That's one of the reasons I got the G-system.

In the year or so since I've had it, I realize that for me, I don't need all the 1000s of options available, and that when I buy stuff, build quality and support trump features. For example I can appreciate the difference between analog and digital delay, and my G-system will sound like either (and more). Truth be told, if I only had analog or digital, I'd be perfectly happy. Still, it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

I've owned a few line6 products, though to be fair, not the M13. I keep telling myself I'll never buy another. I recently bought a Pocket Pod. I hate it. They have GREAT ideas, but everything I've owned is plastic garbage compared to anything I've seen from TC.

That being said, while TC might have stellar build quality, their support is "meh" IMO. Even so, I'd buy another TC product in a heartbeat based on my experience with the G-system. I've only played with the Nove system for about an hour in a store, but the UI on the Nova is far better than the G-system. As stated above, the bummer is you can't do a 4-cable setup on the Nova. If you're playing at home, is this such a big deal? My Maz Sr. doesn't even have an effects loop.

GAD

[teetopkram]

Originally Posted by GAD

In the year or so since I've had it, I realize that for me, I don't need all the 1000s of options available, and that when I buy stuff, build quality and support trump features. For example I can appreciate the difference between analog and digital delay, and my G-system will sound like either (and more). Truth be told, if I only had analog or digital, I'd be perfectly happy. Still, it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

GAD

Agreed, which is why I dumped the M13 and have gone back to just 4-5 good pedals...I was spending more time tweaking than playing

[Bluesman 82]

As far as versatility goes, you should ask yourself how much versatility do you *really* need?

Basically speaking, it's fun tweaking buttons and switching between many effects. However, in the long run one grows tired of it and ends up sticking to only a couple of effects he really likes.
That's why the Nova suggests, as people say, the already minimum top quality effects that a guitarist needs.
That being said, I'm not sure one notices a big difference between the units if they're used only at home. If not, then isn't it better to have a unit with a wider range of effects where you could choose from exactly what sounds best for you?
I must admit that I don't have a chance of playing the units, so basically I'm trying to collect as much data as I can based on through people's experience.

a short question- would you go with the Nova (having the opp. to buy 1-2 more effects- like a fuzz or a looper) or go with the M13 and have that opportunity (e.g. extra overdrive) ?

[GAD]

Originally Posted by Bluseman 82

a short question- would you go with the Nova (having the opp. to buy 1-2 more effects- like a fuzz or a looper) or go with the M13 and have that opportunity (e.g. extra overdrive) ?

I would buy the Nova + fuzz etc. In fact that what I did, only with a G-system.

GAD

[Bluesman 82]

I think i'll also go for the Nova.

[teetopkram]

Another thing to consider...I just read on another forum that a member whose opinion I respect, was able to put his Nova System in his amp's effects loop, then by going through the menus was able to tell the Nova to go ahead and engage the analog drive. He found that engaging the OD added good breakup and was a good boost.

[teetopkram]

Originally Posted by GAD

I would buy the Nova + fuzz etc. In fact that what I did, only with a G-system.

GAD

You know, for a couple hundred more one can pick up a used G-system. How do you find it works? I've heard rumors about tone suck, but man it looks like an all in one solution if you've got a couple dirt boxes you love

Mark

[Trotter]

I really like the Nova.
If you don't have any pedals this is a great unit to buy.
Top quality and great sounding effects all the way!

[GAD]

Originally Posted by teetopkram

You know, for a couple hundred more one can pick up a used G-system. How do you find it works? I've heard rumors about tone suck, but man it looks like an all in one solution if you've got a couple dirt boxes you love

Mark

That's exactly what I did. I got my G-system used on this forum in fact.

The G-system is complicated. Make no mistake about it. It's not as easy to program as the Nova System in my experience. That being said, if you spend a couple of days with it, you'll get it. I've almost sold mine off a few times, then decided to dig in and discovered it was my fault.

I've complained of tone suck on the G. The problem was mine. The default settings on the G-system are a little strange. In the manual they go on about there being "no boost in the digital realm", and how they attenuate the signal 6dB in the system so the "boost" seems like a boost, when all it does is return you to unity gain. That pissed me off. The cool thing about the G is its flexibility. I reprogrammed it so the levels were the same as without the G, then put a proper boost in loop four, then programmed the boost switch to toggle loop four. Now I love it.

The G is a serious system, designed for serious musician - like ones with engineers. You have to understand impedance, levels, balanced cables and a host of other stuff to make this thing shine when using it in an effects loop, or when putting high-gain stomp boxes in the G loops. There are people on the TC forums that will help you if you get stuck though.

Some people complain that the G-System sounds digital. It converts at 96kHz/24bit, but does so repeatedly:

In > A/D > [Filter][Comp] > D/A > [Loop 1,2,3,4] > A/D > [Mod][Pitch][Delay][Reverb] > D/A > Out [1,2]

Hard not to though with the loops in the right place.

The G-system supports MIDI so you can program amp channels into your patches. I've not done this, but I understand it is not a full MIDI controller.

People complain about the Wah, mostly because it doesn't behave like a cry-baby where you stomp it for on/off. They then put an analog wah in the chain before the G-system, which then coomplicates the signal path when using it racked and with 4-wire configs.

Bottom line, the tone suck most people complain about can be dialed out, but it takes some real thinking and work. If you're a "throw it on the floor, tweak it and go" kind of guy, the G-system is not for you. It is a digital system, so if you can hear that at 96kHz/24bit, it might bother you. I don't discount what people can or can't hear, but that sampling rate is OK by me for live stuff.

GAD

[shaneygoo]

tough call...

here's more to confuse you... for the mod and delay sections per se i don't think any of these beat the eventides

i'd say g system does the most if you're patient enough to save up for it

the tc gear probably sounds better but the m13 has more effects