Ampeg superbreverb or gemini

[mrmjp]

I have never played an Ampeg Superbreverb, can anyone tell me how it compares to a Gemini I? I know the Superb has a fifteen in it and is 25watts vs 22 and a twelve in the Gemini.

[mrmjp]

I know the Ampeg Superbreverb is a rare bird, but I would love any input.

[slider313]

I'm not so sure the Supereverb is actually a 25 watt amp. I believe it's an 18 watter just like a Reverberocket only with a 15" speaker. The Gemini is 22 watts, a great sounding amp and has the chassis seperated from the speaker box which is a great idea in a combo amp.

[soldersucker]

The superreverb is needed a rare bird i have only seen one online.The Gemini 1 is my favourite amp handsdown i have three 1965's.Why?
-22 cathode biased watts
-largeish well designed cab that sounds big
-Great overdrive after 2 o'clock
-The best reverb
-Tremolo
-and more

[soulohio]

3 of them? sir, that is alot of responsibility. you should sell one of them to me and let me share the load

Originally Posted by soldersucker

The superreverb is needed a rare bird i have only seen one online.The Gemini 1 is my favourite amp handsdown i have three 1965's.Why?
-22 cathode biased watts
-largeish well designed cab that sounds big
-Great overdrive after 2 o'clock
-The best reverb
-Tremolo
-and more

[mrmjp]

The circuit is similar to the R-12-R-B Reverberocket, but it is 25watts and has a fifteen in it.

I just bought a Gemini I, and am about to buy the Superbreverb. I will put them in the same room and let them fight it out, winner stays.

[mrmjp]

originally named the Supereverb, Fender had them change it.

[Hammertone]

I had one (along with various other similar Ampegs, many of which I still have). It sounded just like a Reverberocket but louder and cleaner. Lovely amp, but I found it to be a bit too "in-between" - not dirty enough for dirt, not clean enough for clean. I didn't want to modify it, so off it went. I'd recommend the Gem I.

[bunuel]

The reverb on both are pretty close to equally magnificent--the early 60's blue check ampegs have about the best 'verb circuit I've ever heard. Both are great amps, so you can't lose either way. The gemini's got a tad more power & two channels (in case you wish to jumper channels or switch using an a-b box), while the R-15-R only has 1 channel. I really like the octal tubes on the supereverb & am a big fan of 15" spkrs, but the 12ax7s in the Gemini are easier to come by. I also like the slightly lower headroom of R-15-R for some applications. That said, the R15R typically run a bit more than Gemini I, tho both are about the best deals in vintage amps. Another option is the Gemini II, which has the same features as the I, but with a 15" speaker like the r-15-r. But all of 'em are so cheap that it's not such a bad nor unaffordable idea to have one of each. Pretty crazy that these amps still can be had for round $600-1,000. Great tone & super build quality!

[soldersucker]

Bunuel hit's it on the head i have maybe 1k into all three of my Gem-1's.I also have a 64 R-12-rb Reverberocket and if this is the same curcuit as the superereverb i definitely think the Gem-1 is killing it.The key to any of these old Ampeg's is packing the original speaker away and getting a modern equivelent in there.Thats a whole other thread i like a Weber C-12R.The only tube to worry about in the Gem-1 is the 7199 phase inverter they have been rediscontinued

[mrmjp]

My Gemini is coming, should have it next week. Is it loud enough to keep up with a drummer?

[slider313]

I think the Gemini will keep up with a drummer but as stated in an earlier response it will sound better with a speaker change. The original speaker should be a blue bell C12Q. I had a R-12-T, that I really miss, that sounded great with a Vintage 30 in it. This was before the G12H30 was reissued. If I had the amp today the G12H30 would be in it.

[mrmjp]

Ok change in direction, I am looking for nice headroom, so what speaker? So far I have one suggestion for a Weber C-12R, and one for the G12H30. Opinions?

[mad dog]

mrmjp:

Two I'd try right away would be the CREX and Weber Cali Ceramic paperdome. The CREX is the louder of the two, might match up well with the voicing of the Gem I. The Cali may or may not. Despite the "quasi JBL" description you often hear on this speaker, I find it not at all hi-fi, quite warm in fact. Won't know 'til you try ...

Both offer lots of headroom.
MD

[bunuel]

Originally Posted by soldersucker

Bunuel hit's it on the head i have maybe 1k into all three of my Gem-1's.I also have a 64 R-12-rb Reverberocket and if this is the same curcuit as the superereverb i definitely think the Gem-1 is killing it.The key to any of these old Ampeg's is packing the original speaker away and getting a modern equivelent in there.Thats a whole other thread i like a Weber C-12R.The only tube to worry about in the Gem-1 is the 7199 phase inverter they have been rediscontinued

I like the circuit on both the r12rb, which is pretty much the same as the R15R, & the gemini, just dif. vibes--the R12/R15 circuit seems a little smoother transition from fat cleans to breakup, for lack of a better terms. I think the tube complement using the octal 6SL7 & 6SN7 in the R15/R12 vs. the 12ax7 may make a bigger difference than the circuit even, but I'll leave that too the techsters. Both are great though.

The 7199 tubes can be pricey, but certainly not near as bad as some coveted NOS 12AX7. But they are key to Geminis - when they start to go the amp starts sounding very bad very quickly & it seems to be about the only tube that the circuit runs hard. So if yr going to hang on to yr Gemini, it is worth having a few good ones on hand.

I actually like the orig. Jensen's in both, but that's a matter of taste.

That said, if yr going to push these amps (and ya should, they have a very pleasing muscle-y breakup, contrary to some myths about early ampegs) I STRONGLY recommend swapping in a speaker that's got a higher power rating than the orig. ones in ANY of the early 60's Ampegs. I've blown several of the orig. ones before I wised up.

Jess Oliver, the great designer of all the early ampegs, (he's still running a shop in NY, very cool guy) told me that all of the orig. spkrs are easily blown because of all of the following: 1) no one at the time thought any one would be diming the amps for long periods of time; 2) the amps' output rating were pretty conservative; 3) they were trying to save production costs by using speakers with lower power ratings. So it is strongly advised to used a speakers with higher power ratings. I use speakers that can handle at least 50 W for my 18-22 watt ampegs.

Which speaker is matter of taste that I leave to others to chew on, because mine is a bit idiosyncratic, anyway.

Other important difs-- the Gemini have bass & treble controls on each channel, while the R15&12R use a single tone knob. Another dif. is that most of Gemini's have bright boost on at least one channel (mine has it on both). And it is excrutiatingly bright, so much so that I don't use it, though someone else might.

One last dif. that comes to mind is that the tremelo on every Gem. I've ever heard cuts the vol. considerably & I haven't noticed this on of the R12/R15s I've heard.