Finally: A cheap midi guitar!

[webe123]

Originally Posted by Maruuk

Until now, it'd cost you upwards of $700 (plus a guitar!) to get a well-functioning midi guitar rig working. And even then, since that's going to be a reactive system (it has to wait for the string to vibrate, then analyze it for pitch and dynamics), so there's always going to be annoying lag/latency. I'm not even going to mention the Z-tar stuff that starts at multiple thousands of dollars!

Why can't they just make a cheap, dedicated guitar that outputs midi without all the hoopla of pickups and boxes and special cables--and no lag? I mean, heck, I bought a Suzuki guitar back in 1990 that for $299 output midi directly with zero lag! But it had no string mute and was a bit wanky. Apparently it took 19 years for technology to play catch up...

But it took the Rock Band videogame craze to deliver us from evil $700 Roland converter boxes/pickups. Check this lil plastic wonder out, available this Summer for $150. No lag, no converter boxes, not even frackin midi cables! Enjoy, I know I will!

http://www.ezgear.com/GS/YouRockGuitar.html

Seems this was made to be a game controller...nothing more.

"Applications
In addition to the You Rock Guitar, a Software Developer Kit (SDK) will allow a new generation of music game developers or those with existing computer and gaming applications to develop and market their games, sounds and programs. "


This is basically a toy to use with games. Not a real MIDI guitar controller.

I paid well over 2 grand for the yamaha motif rack XS and axon MK II as well as a Godin ACS SA to run through it.

I do not know WHAT you are going on about "lag". I do not experience any "lag" when I play at all.

I don't think you know what you are talking about. Not all MIDI guitar systems are the same!

Of course that could be because I have a decent MIDI guitar setup now and have moved on from Roland pickups(which are terrible and no comparison to a RMC pickup like on my Godin)

I also used to own a Roland GR 33, but have moved on from that as well. And the tracking is some of the best you can get with the axon MK II going MIDI into the yamaha motif rack XS.

If you want to play MIDI guitar, you have to pay the price for it. The stuff AIN'T cheap! And probably never will be. Even though it is a heck of a lot cheaper than it used to be!

But that's life...take it or leave it.

If you are looking for a very cheap MIDI guitar system....I don't think you will find it.

And if you DO, I doubt it will have any tracking worth buying it for.

But that thing you posted was NOT...... I repeat NOT..... a guitar! It is a controller made to look like a guitar. Big difference!

The nice thing about my Godin ACS SA, is that I have a ready to play classical guitar with MIDI capability and can even mix the midi sound in with the classical sound.

Even if someone bought the controller you posted just for the electronics, they would have to take them out of the plastic controller, install them in a real guitar and there is STILL no telling if it would even work, because it was not designed for that use! Not to mention the cost of buying a guitar if you don't have one you would want to experiment on, because one thing IS for sure....you can't play that toy you posted. It does not even have real strings.

[Maruuk]

Of course it's a guitar, just not one you like! It plays exactly like a guitar, and even has guitar samples on board. Sorry it doesn't use your antique notion of "strings". But that's your problem.

You don't get even the basics of how your own rig works. It waits to READ the string vibration passively, then it feeds that into a processor which has to then COMPUTE the velocity and pitch. That all takes time. It's called LAG or LATENCY. Same deal with monitoring off a sound cards output, you have to wait for the processing.

A guitar is anything that plays just like a guitar, and this does. Strings are so 5 minutes ago.

Who knows if this thing works well or not. If it does, it'll make mincemeat out of these ridiculous $1,000+ complicated lag-o-matic systems. It's a tool, for a purpose. It's not some glitzy piece of furniture to impress 14 year old girls with. It's $150 because it's made in China out of plastic and pot metal hardware. We all know that.

But if it works, and works well for sequencing virtual instruments in a DAW, it is unquestionable a major game changer.

One made possible only because they can sell a pantload of em to Rock Band tykes and that justified the R&D costs. The game connection is a GOOD thing, not a BAD thing.

Jeez, how can one guy get so many things backwards in one post???

[webe123]

Originally Posted by Maruuk

Of course it's a guitar, just not one you like!

How exactly can you call that controller a guitar?? For petes sake! A guitar has strings on it, this does not. Don't give me crap about this being a guitar! And me liking it or not has nothing to do with the fact that it is not a guitar! It simply is not!

Originally Posted by Maruuk

It plays exactly like a guitar, and even has guitar samples on board. Sorry it doesn't use your antique notion of "strings". But that's your problem.

HUH? Say again? My "antique notion" is called a fact buddy! Get it straight! What you posted is not a guitar! It is a CONTROLLER....made to look like a guitar. If you believe that is a guitar, I have a bridge in Iraq I want to sell you! Here is a websters dictioinary definition of what a "guitar" is...since you don't seem to understand what one is.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/guitar

"a flat-bodied stringed instrument with a long fretted neck and usually six strings played with a pick or with the fingers"

The controller you posted is not a guitar...it does not have strings, it does not have frets! It has sensors that emulate a guitar sound, but that is hardly a guitar! A yamaha motif keyboard can do the same thing this does, but that does not make it a guitar either.

Originally Posted by Maruuk

You don't get even the basics of how your own rig works. It waits to READ the string vibration passively, then it feeds that into a processor which has to then COMPUTE the velocity and pitch. That all takes time. It's called LAG or LATENCY. Same deal with monitoring off a sound cards output, you have to wait for the processing.

I know exactly how it works! And again, I don't have a problem with lag! You don't seem to understand that the axon is one of the fastest guitar to MIDI processors there is! You are the one that is confused! I never said it did not have any lag, Only that I have never had a problem with it. And I have done some very fast picking with that rig! So don't try to educate me on something you don't own nor understand! I DO! And again, I have never had a problem with lag! Why is that so hard for you to understand?

And for your information, I can also play my 13 pin guitar exactly like a regular guitar...Why???...because it actually is a classical guitar with a 13 pin pickup! Try to do that on that toy you posted! It does not even have strings! It has sensors on the neck that look like strings and frets! READ THE ARTICLE YOU POSTED! IT BACKS WHAT I SAY! Therefore it does not fit the definition of a guitar! Sorry, but you are dead wrong thinking that is a guitar! It is a controller...get over it!

Yes, my guitar goes into my axon and from there the guitar signal is translated into MIDI form that goes to my yamaha motif XS rack which feeds out to the amp or PA! But...it is still a regular classical guitar....it just has electronics on it that translates the signal to MIDI using the 13 pin technology! So don't give me crap and say I don't know what I am talking about!

Originally Posted by Maruuk

A guitar is anything that plays just like a guitar, and this does. Strings are so 5 minutes ago.

And I suppose you think a guitar hero controller is a real guitar too? Why not? It fits your description of looking like a guitar! They even have fender and gibson on the top of the headstocks.

Do you know how ignorant you sound? You are trying to prove your point by saying that if something looks just like something else it is trying to imitate.... it must be the real thing!

I'll tell you what, why don't you give me all of your "real" money and I can give you some counterfit money for the same amount!?? Why not? After all, the counterfit money looks just like real money. It will even fool some people. That is how your definition of a guitar sounds. It can look like a guitar all it wants to, but it is NOT a guitar!

Let's be clear, it looks like a guitar, but it is a controller. It does not have frets and it does not have strings.Again, READ THE ARTICLE YOU POSTED! You will see I am telling you the truth!

Originally Posted by Maruuk

Who knows if this thing works well or not. If it does, it'll make mincemeat out of these ridiculous $1,000+ complicated lag-o-matic systems.

Yeah and the moon is made out of green cheese too! Frankly, I think you are a fanboy of cheap guitars and just want everything cheap! It would be great in a perfect world, but this is not a perfect world.

In the first place, it was not designed to be a guitar! It was designed to be a controller for games! How you think that this technology is going to be so revolutionary that it will change MIDI guitar when it is not even designed for it, is beyond me! Again, read the article.....it was made for games like guitar hero....not made to try out on a real guitar. I wish it could be possible to put this on a real guitar, but I doubt very seriously it will be able to.

Originally Posted by Maruuk

It's a tool, for a purpose. It's not some glitzy piece of furniture to impress 14 year old girls with. It's $150 because it's made in China out of plastic and pot metal hardware. We all know that.

What purpose are you referring to? We already have MIDI guitar technology. Again here is the article you apparently refuse to read!

Multi-touch fretboard - Look Mom, No strings
The You Rock Guitar has a FULL fret board like a guitar, and feels just like it, but unlike a conventional guitar, there are no fretboard strings.

and again:

Raised bars on the fretboard give the user the feeling of playing the guitar with strings but unlike a REAL GUITAR, the You Rock Guitar never requires tuning…ever.


How you can say that it is a "real" guitar when this company does not even call it a guitar , but THEY call it a "controller" ....is beyond me.



And you seem to have a bias against expensive equipment..... either because you can't afford it or don't want to. I could care less either way, but it does not change the fact that the equipment I mentioned does get the job done! Like it or lump it, it works!

And I don't buy my equipment to impress anyone but myself.You just seem so anxious to prove your point that you post how owning expensive equipment is somehow bad...it isn't.... get over it!

Originally Posted by Maruuk

But if it works, and works well for sequencing virtual instruments in a DAW, it is unquestionable a major game changer.

Again it was not designed for that! It was designed as a game controller. That is like saying the plastic guitar controller that comes with guitar hero, could someday be a "game changer" and we might no longer need or use a real les paul. I like the guitar hero game, but give me a break!!

I would be glad if something off of this could be used to make everything in the MIDI guitar world cheaper, but it was not designed for that purpose, so I don't see this ending up changing anything.

Originally Posted by Maruuk

One made possible only because they can sell a pantload of em to Rock Band tykes and that justified the R&D costs. The game connection is a GOOD thing, not a BAD thing.

Jeez, how can one guy get so many things backwards in one post???

And how exactly can you not even understand what a real guitar IS, what it is made of.... and then try to come off like a jackass and talk about things you don't even know?

Like a controller that looks like a guitar...designed for games , somehow can be made into a MIDI guitar, when it does not even have strings nor can be played like a real guitar.

First, try to educate yourself on what a real guitar is. Then try to find out what are the differences between something that looks like a guitar and a real guitar. Last, try to open up your mind to the possibility that you don't know everything and maybe just maybe you might find out you were dead wrong in some of your posts.

[Maruuk]

A guitar is anything that plays like a guitar and makes guitar-like sounds. So you crash and burn on that one. How nice for you that you require a piece of furniture. Enjoy your living room accessory.

Any midi system using a hex or piezo pickup and a converter box has lag. Very annoying and music-killing lag. So you crash and burn on that one.

This instrument benefits greatly from being subsidized by doing double-duty as a hi-volume game controller. The market is potentially huge, and that helps lower costs via volume projections and margin adjustments. Otherwise this guitar built for the single purpose of midi controller could end up costing hundreds more. So the game aspect of it is very beneficial to musicians: it lowers the unit cost. So you crash and burn on that one.

And finally since no one in the general public has played one, any projection as to the performance of the guitar is completely disingenuous. So you totally crash and burn on that one.

That's a lot of crashing, and burning. Only Toonces the cat drives off a cliff that many times.

[mastercaster]

Here is another link that has more info.

http://www.yourockguitar.com/

[electronpirate]

Originally Posted by Maruuk

A guitar is anything that plays like a guitar and makes guitar-like sounds. So you crash and burn on that one. How nice for you that you require a piece of furniture. Enjoy your living room accessory.

I will.

I guess that settles it then.

[GovernorSilver]

It's a cheap guitar-like controller that makes MIDI input easier for guitarists who don't play keyboard or want to play keyboard. For recording MIDI sequences in one's studio, it looks ok to me. I've seen a number of guitar players spend 10x as much on a Starrlabs Ztar, just for this purpose, even though they may prefer to play real guitars live.

Then when the Yamaha EZ line came out, guitarists bought those to use just like Ztars except their needs were not so fancy (and thus they had no use for the Ztar's advanced MIDI features). This thing looks even cheaper and might be an even better fit, again for the purpose of using MIDI for songwriting/composing rather than on-stage jamming.

[Maruuk]

Exactly. If they can just keep the midi output simple and clean as opposed to the Yamaha's jumble of channels per string and crazy hammer-off/note-ons this could be a very useful tool for the many guitarists who don't have a ton of cash and who need to add a piano or organ or synth or whatever accompaniment to their DAW tracks. That's a very big deal to a lot of players. The ability to add such timbres to a recording makes a vast difference. And if you're not so precise on the YouRock, the beauty of midi is that you can autocorrect easily to make it perfect. You just need to be able to get those midi notes in there in the first place!

[mastercaster]

The fact that they are going to release a Software Developers Kit is a big plus. I would like to be able to split the fret board and assign different sounds to each string.
I hope some of those that were hacking the Yamaha EZ get the SDK.

[Maruuk]

Yeah, if you really get into it, the EZ did offer all that string-assignment stuff in spades via the hacks and Midi Yoke and this other home made app for it that I frankly struggled with. That was the good part of the Yamaha being so technically complex. I suspect the YouRock will be dead simple: mono-channel poly, pitch, note-on, velocity, mute. For me, that's the holy grail. If it works without nasty glitching. My old Suzuki has no mute--you set note length globally. Yikes. Outside of that, it actually plays great! And they could do that in 1990 for cheap. What have they been doing in midi guitar techland for 19 years??? They had the hex/piezo 13-pin thing worked out by the late 80's!

Midi guitar is the Lear Jet 8-track tape deck of music technology!

[webe123]

Originally Posted by Maruuk

A guitar is anything that plays like a guitar and makes guitar-like sounds.

Again WRONG! A GUITAR HAS FRETS and STRINGS, that controller does not. Why you say it is a guitar when it clearly is NOT, is really showing your ignorance on this.

Originally Posted by Maruuk

So you crash and burn on that one. How nice for you that you require a piece of furniture. Enjoy your living room accessory.

I don't crash and burn on anything. You are the one showing your ignorance through your childish remarks. Grow UP!

You don't even know what a guitar IS. And if all you can do is throw insults, then you are even more immature than I thought.

Originally Posted by Maruuk

Any midi system using a hex or piezo pickup and a converter box has lag. Very annoying and music-killing lag. So you crash and burn on that one.

Again, I don't crash and burn on anything. I gave you FACTS....But you don't even own the equipment I have and yet you are making assumptions on something you don't even own!

When you own the stuff I have, you can make your own assesment. But until then, I think your just making childish remarks on equipment YOU don't know anything about!

And again, I said that it had lag but that it was not a problem for me. You must have a reading problem because I stated this several times already!
Why are you acting like a troll just because I don't agree with you?

Originally Posted by Maruuk

This instrument benefits greatly from being subsidized by doing double-duty as a hi-volume game controller. The market is potentially huge, and that helps lower costs via volume projections and margin adjustments. Otherwise this guitar built for the single purpose of midi controller could end up costing hundreds more. So the game aspect of it is very beneficial to musicians: it lowers the unit cost. So you crash and burn on that one.

Again you are making stupid ASSUMPTIONS not based on FACTS! Show me EXACTLY in that article where it said it was being developed for MIDI guitar. It was developed for games!

And you really don't know how much R+D goes into MIDI guitar do you? It's not as easy as you think it is to simply convert this over to a MIDI guitar system. It took YEARS of R+D at Roland and Axon both, for them to come out with what they have. That was not done overniight. And YOU stupidly act as if it is just a matter of converting this system into a professional MIDI guitar system. Sorry, you are wrong, period!

I don't think you know what you are talking about, you simply want to throw insults at people who dissagree with you but you have no facts to back you up! Try putting out facts instead of insults and then maybe someone will believe you!

Originally Posted by Maruuk

And finally since no one in the general public has played one, any projection as to the performance of the guitar is completely disingenuous. So you totally crash and burn on that one.

That's a lot of crashing, and burning. Only Toonces the cat drives off a cliff that many times.

That last statement really shows how childish you are. You have no facts to back up your claims, you throw insults at people who actually OWN MIDI guitar equipment.

Then instead of considering what they say, you choose to stupidly believe that if somehow this TOY becaomes a hit with games, it will somehow be able to be turned into a professional MIDI guitar system.

I am not the one who is driving off a cliff, you are!

[Maruuk]

Ouch, somebody got up on the wrong side of the Grinch cave! It is to laugh.

Thousands of guitarists of average and below means stand to benefit greatly from this product, IF it works reasonably well. And especially as our friend above says, some good hackers do some neat stuff with the SDK and add some utility to a basic system. I for one am very excited about it, and will be first in line to get it in my hands for a trial run. Anybody at E3 can check it out in a few days!

Haters, go home.

[mastercaster]

For those unsure of the manufactures intent be sure to go to the link in post number 20.
It contains much more info on the YouRockGuitar and its intended markets.

[Will Chen]

Despite the argument of whether this is a guitar or not, I'm with Maruuk on this one. I could care less who their target audience is, if it accurately triggers midi and has a somewhat guitar like feel this thing is at a price point where it will I think it will be very successful. I'd really like to try it out personally. The only down fall is how do you accommodate vibrato and pitch bends with a stringless system? My guess is you don't...

[GovernorSilver]

Originally Posted by Will Chen

Despite the argument of whether this is a guitar or not, I'm with Maruuk on this one. I could care less who their target audience is, if it accurately triggers midi and has a somewhat guitar like feel this thing is at a price point where it will I think it will be very successful. I'd really like to try it out personally. The only down fall is how do you accommodate vibrato and pitch bends with a stringless system? My guess is you don't...

The Starrlabs controller instruments (Ztar, etc.) have onboard controllers for pitch bend such as joysticks, ribbons, pressure-sensitive pads, etc. The buttons on the fingerboard are also pressure-sensitive.

For most guitar players, I suspect a Roland or Axon system would be preferable for live performance. But if you just want a MIDI system for recording/writing, have no intention of using MIDI guitar live, and don't need the features of a Ztar (nor do you want to spend the money for one), the Yamaha and YouRock offerings should do the job just fine.