ES-339 Pots Questions

[Taylor 339]

I broke one of the two posts off the shaft of the volume pot on my ES-339 today (long story that I won't go into). I want to make sure I replace it with the correct part. The only thing I do know is it's a 500k Ohm Taper Split Shaft. I found genuine Gibson replacements on Sweetwater.com. I just don't know which one. I have not removed the broken one.

Is it short or long shaft?

Also, these guitars have the Memphis Tone Electronics. Does that require a special pot?

Thanks for your help.

[walterw]

i know it's a 500k audio taper pot, and i think it's short shaft.

[TBIRD Phil]

I recently replaced the whole wiring harness out of my es339 with a kit from http://www.rsguitarworks.net/rsstore...i059rsqela03m5 It came with short shafts.

I would suggest calling them up and talk to Billy. He made me a very well made harness that got rid of that "memphis circuit" and made me a modern one. the tone improved 100%. Since you have to pull out the the harness to replace 1 pot you might as well replace all of them while your at it. The gibson pots seem cheap to me. Here is another link that Billy did from RS Guitarworks that shows the install of a harness on a 335 and a 339
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tone...your-life.html

[Rhomco]

Originally Posted by TBIRD Phil

I recently replaced the whole wiring harness out of my es339 with a kit from http://www.rsguitarworks.net/rsstore...i059rsqela03m5 It came with short shafts.

I would suggest calling them up and talk to Billy. He made me a very well made harness that got rid of that "memphis circuit" and made me a modern one. the tone improved 100%. Since you have to pull out the the harness to replace 1 pot you might as well replace all of them while your at it. The gibson pots seem cheap to me. Here is another link that Billy did from RS Guitarworks that shows the install of a harness on a 335 and a 339
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tone...your-life.html

I use RS harnesses in several of my Gibbys and like them very much. I also have a stock ES-339 which IMHO sounds as good or better than any of the R/S sets. Can you please elaborate a bit on what the "improvements" were after the change. Did you stay with the 57's? Did you concurently change anything else (bridge/stop)? What did you leave behind that you did not like about the ES-339 Memphis circuit and what did you gain?
Genuine interest here, i'm not just typing to be heard.
Thanks,
Rob

[cyndicate]

I always wondered how to replace pots in this guitar, not really digging the electronics in the ES-339 right now, the taper on the volume pot IMO sucks

[TBIRD Phil]

Originally Posted by Rhomco

I use RS harnesses in several of my Gibbys and like them very much. I also have a stock ES-339 which IMHO sounds as good or better than any of the R/S sets. Can you please elaborate a bit on what the "improvements" were after the change. Did you stay with the 57's? Did you concurently change anything else (bridge/stop)? What did you leave behind that you did not like about the ES-339 Memphis circuit and what did you gain?
Genuine interest here, i'm not just typing to be heard.
Thanks,
Rob

When I first got my 339 it sounded great with the volume and tone wide open. As soon as I started rolling off the volume on either pickup with the switch in the mid position I would lose almost all of that pickup. It was frustrating for me because I would really have to look down at the knobs and go from "10 to 9" to get something that I liked.

I changed the whole harness (pots, caps, switch, jack) left everything else stock. The difference that I noticed right away is I now have full control on the volume pots almost all the way to 3. Another thing is strumming chords through a clean amp sounds almost acoustic like. The tones are much more effective along with playing with the switch/tone to get the sound I want.

I was considering returning my 339 at one point but thought I'd give it a try with a new harness because I really liked the feel of the guitar and the way it sounded wide open. It just seemed there wasn't enough options for me once I tried dialing it in. The harness is the best thing I think I could of done for this guitar. I gig 2 nights a week and this has been my #1 taking over the spot of my es335.

[shngn7]

Originally Posted by TBIRD Phil

When I first got my 339 it sounded great with the volume and tone wide open. As soon as I started rolling off the volume on either pickup with the switch in the mid position I would lose almost all of that pickup. It was frustrating for me because I would really have to look down at the knobs and go from "10 to 9" to get something that I liked.

I changed the whole harness (pots, caps, switch, jack) left everything else stock. The difference that I noticed right away is I now have full control on the volume pots almost all the way to 3. Another thing is strumming chords through a clean amp sounds almost acoustic like. The tones are much more effective along with playing with the switch/tone to get the sound I want.

I was considering returning my 339 at one point but thought I'd give it a try with a new harness because I really liked the feel of the guitar and the way it sounded wide open. It just seemed there wasn't enough options for me once I tried dialing it in. The harness is the best thing I think I could of done for this guitar. I gig 2 nights a week and this has been my #1 taking over the spot of my es335.

I was considering getting rid of the MTC as well. I don't like how it reacts with my fuzz faces. Once I roll the volume below 9 it just gets way too thin sounding for me.

[Rhomco]

That is exactly what I was looking for. I never thought about the taper much until I took my 339 to band practice and I have to agree it is really is all or nothing. I have grown accoustomed to diming everthing at home and just wailing away. I really enjoy nailing a "nosebleed with a smile" tone but all that falls on its ass when you try to put that into the dynamics of a band setting. The stock 339 circuit just wont back down without leaving you wanting. Thanks for pointing out the issue so clearly.
Rob

[TNJ]

Yep,
I agree that the MTC is a bit of a puzzler, for a guitar with the goods like the ES339. I picked up a new caramelburst '59 neck version yesterday, and love it. But the pots really only work from about 8.5 to 10. Below 8.5...everything goes to 0.0 in a heartbeat. Weird...
Still, the tone and playability of this axe is world class...JUST what I was looking for; the neck tone of a '335, and the overdriven sound of a cross between a lester and a '335. Perfect.
I'm gonna keep it stock for now...if I get a bit tired of micromanaging my tone/volume, I may go to another harness.

S.
j

[Jimmy MAck]

Similar problems with my 2002 57 RI LP Black Beauty. Not much to work with with the pots below 9, I had volume but MUD for tone. RS pots, caps and a Lightweight StopBar Tailpiece. Now the tone is really sweet (softer jazzier, but very expressive and woody) between 7.5 and 9.5, on 10, its full on brighter, loud. The new stop bar added more jangle and harmonics, a tad brighter, but that helps with the volume turned down from 10! And yes, more acoustical response, plugged in or not.
However I followed the diagram that came with the kit, and didn't find much difference from what I had???? So with some posts from the LPF explaining the "50's wiring" (hot lead on the volume pot going to the middle lug instead of the 1st lug - or something like that... I don't remember well enough - maybe it was just the cap) I achieved the great results I have now. Tremendous improvement in tone and enjoyment, plus the giggability factor jumped 10x. Gibson pots were 300K. Anyone knows they should be 500K !!!!!!!! Big diff.

[Bob V]

The abrupt change from 10 to 9 on the Memphis Tone Circuit is characteristic of the "50's wiring" used on earlier Gibsons. I can't say if there's a different taper to their pots (they do advertise that it's a special taper), but it's a safe bet that they're linear taper like Gibson has been using for awhile. That alone will create some of the uneven response in the volume control.

The "secret" to the Memphis (or 50's) circuit is that the capacitor for the tone control runs off of the center lug of the volume pot (as opposed to the outer lug as it would be on "modern" wiring). That way the tone control "follows the voltage divider," (to quote the ES339 ad copy) in other words it comes after the volume control. The intended effect is that it does not get quite as muddy as you roll back the volume control. The side effect, if you will, is that the tone and volume controls are much more interactive (hence more fiddling is needed) and there's an abrupt change in volume from 10 to about 8-1/2. An audio taper pot will change that behavior, so you might want to try a different pot but keep the 50's wiring. I found the jump in volume on the stock ES339 is not as bad if the amp is really cranked - another excuse to play loud, really.

If, on the other hand, you're used to Les Paul type wiring controls and you have an expectation as to what's going to happen when you blend the pickups or roll back the volume, then by all means go ahead and use "modern" wiring and audio taper pots. You really do want the freedom to blend the pickups and to roll back the volume to clean up the tone and control the gain on the amp just from the knobs on your guitar.

There are plenty of threads here and on the lespauforum with far more technical and well-tested findings than mine, so do some searches on "50's wiring" and have some fun reading. I happen to prefer it but there's certainly no one better way.

And, incidentally, the laminated top on an ES339 is the same as any other semi-hollowbody so you're looking at regular short-shaft pots. Almost the only time you need long-shafters is with a newer Les Paul that has the metal plate inside the control cavity under a thick carved solid top (or a CS336).

Oh, and if you're replacing the pots think seriously about a different brand. Can't go wrong with CTS pots. Stay away from imports with metric threads like Alpha pots in this situation since their shafts will be too skinny for the holes (not because of the quality, I like Alpha pots just fine).

Remember to make a cardboard template of the top and sit the pots in it for soldering. That way the pots will want to stay in the correct relative position and it will help to feed them back into the guitar. Just the same you'll need dental floss or fishing line tied to the old ones before you remove them so you'll have feeders for the new ones.

When you get the old pot out, put it on a meter and let us know what you find. I've read that Gibson is using 300 ohm pots on production guitars, but my Les Paul seems to have 500. Also check and see if the value is half with the pot turned to the middle - that's a good sign that they're linear instead of audio taper. I'm a believer that audio taper pots are appropriate for guitar volume and tone controls, dunno why (tongue in cheek) Gibson uses linear taper these days. This will help us decipher the mystery of the Memphis Tone Circuit.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by Bob V

When you get the old pot out, put it on a meter and let us know what you find. I've read that Gibson is using 300 ohm pots on production guitars, but my Les Paul seems to have 500. Also check and see if the value is half with the pot turned to the middle - that's a good sign that they're linear instead of audio taper. I'm a believer that audio taper pots are appropriate for guitar volume and tone controls, dunno why (tongue in cheek) Gibson uses linear taper these days. This will help us decipher the mystery of the Memphis Tone Circuit.

that's just it. gibson has been using 300k linear taper volumes for a couple decades now, and i hate them! they don't clean up a crunchy amp like 500k audio tapers will, and they're just a little dark regardless. the "memphis circuit" that gibson makes such a big deal over is just 500k audio pots and that "'50s wiring" thing.

their historic reissues use 500ks like the originals did, although gibson still uses linear taper volumes, fine for jazz but no good for blues and rock:

linear taper volumes turn down evenly when played through a bone-dry clean amp, but stay loud, get muddy, then drop off at "1" through a crunchy amp.

audio taper volumes drop off real fast from "10" through the clean jazz amp, but clean up beautifully and turn the volume down evenly through the crunchy amp.

everybody else uses audio tapers, and gibson used them on those limited '59 pauls they just came out with, as well as the 339.

the nice RS kits are audio taper volumes.

tone pots should be audio regardless, and that's what gibson does.