Speaker Shootout, Weber, TT, Scumback, Celestion, Oxford, EV, 10" and 12"

[Gouxman]

This started as a live shootout to find the best replacement speaker for a blackface Princeton Reverb. A friend and I put together a number of 10" speakers, and eventually expanded the review to include 12" speakers. A Princeton can be retrofitted to house a 12" speaker.

There will be a summary at the end, so you can skip the details if you like.

10" speakers tested:

Tone Tubby hempcone(2) 10" alnico
Weber 10F150t light dope(ceramic)
Scumback SA10M-75-8(ceramic)
Oxford 10J4 original Princeton issue from 1966, recently reconed

And because we could also test 12" speakers though same gear:

Celestion G12 Gold alinico
Celestion G12-65, circa 1978
EVM12L circa 1985
...all in single enclosures

Test guitars were a vintage Strat and a Les Paul with Duncan pickups. A Fulltone OCD was used for distortion. Two PRs were used, a '67 silverface with 10" Tone Tubby speaker, and next to it, a blackface with the chassis removed for installing the other 10" test speakers. I played through the '67 silverface electronics only, for consistency.
12" speakers were in their own cabs.

The slammin' '67 PR amp was set clean with the volume on 4, the treble on 5, the bass on 3 3/4. No 'verb was allowed in the test. Overdrive was tested by putting the volume to 6. Distortion was tested by putting the volume back to 4 and using the OCD. It's dials were set to gain 2 o'clock, tone 12 o'clock, volume to 10:30. Switch was down to LP setting.

I made notes for these categories:
Strat clean
Strat OD
Strat distortion
Les Paul clean
Les Paul OD
Speaker overall EQ
Transient breakup(these are the dynamic peaks that drive a speaker to distort)
Speaker character

And now, a review of each speaker:

1966 10" Oxford, reconed
This speaker is very sweet at bedroom volume. It loves the Strat and Les Paul equally. The touch is friendly. The EQ is even, with a nice glassy Fender high end. OD is charming. Distortion is not happy. It sags and farts out. Clean is good on the Strat, but the front pickup of the Les Paul can get ugly. Back pickup is cool. It grunts when pushed to overdrive, ala Carlton during Crusaders era.

Weber 10F150T with light dope, 25 watt
This speaker is remeniscent of the Oxford, but with more headroom. In OD and distortion, it holds solid where the original does not. Overall character straddles the fence between Fender clean, and a taste of Marshall in distortion. It "honks" a bit when pushed, not a bad thing. The clean was very BF with the Strat, but the Les Paul got some transient clipping that was noticeable. The EQ of the speaker is even.

Scumback 10M-75-8
This speaker is a dead ringer for a 12" Greenback, with some improvements. Where a single greenback is never completely clean, this Scumback can be. The overall EQ is warm, but lacks the snappy high end associated with BF Fender. The overall volume was the lowest of the tested speakers. I was able to cheat the treble knob on the amp up a full number to get more high end. The OD was smooth and had alot of charm. The character of this speaker is more Marshall than Fender. The Strat clean was nice but lacked "zing". The Les Paul clean got similar transient clipping to the Oxford and Weber, but the distortion tones were rock solid in every register.

Tone Tubby 10" hemptone alnico
This was the loudest of the 10" speakers by a wide margin. The overall character is "dimensional". It has a very wide EQ range, glassy highs, and full low end. Competes with 12" speakers. It is also has alot of headroom, and the cleans on both the Strat and Les Paul were punchy and clear. OD was Straty with the Strat, nice with the LP. Distortions were big, solid and mean. I was watchful of farting, but there was not a bad tone in this speaker. MAJOR CAVEAT: There was a noticable rattle coming from the amp. We could not tell if it was coming from the speaker, or it was from the PR's box or speaker board. The owner of the amp did not want to dismantle and move the speaker to the other enclosure, so I cannot say if the rattle was from the TT speaker or the PR.

Moving on to 12" speakers:

Celestion G12-65, circa late 70's
This speaker oozes Marshall character in distortion, but also flatters the Fender in clean and OD. Very forgiving and even to both guitars, in every register and gain level.

EVM12L, circa 80's
Lots of headroom. EQ even across every register. This recording classic was great at everything we threw at it. A class act all around.

Celestion Gold 12" Alnico
Another well broken-in speaker with lots of headroom and character. The EQ is strongest in the high end glassy area, almost as if a bright switch is on. I tamed it by turning down the amp's treble. It is loud and punchy. Cleans were excellent on both guitars, and OD and distortion constistent with its inherent EQ.

SUMMARY:

Oxford 10" at bedroom levels is sweet and clean. The OD has a charming knarl but the distortion sags and farts.

Weber 10F150T 25 watt is an excellent Fender meets Marshall tone that is solid at all gain levels and louder than stock. It could have more headroom for humbucker cleans, so I'm curious how the 50 watt version(which they now recommend) would sound.

Scumback 10M-75-8 is a great Marshally sounding 10" with better cleans than the Greenback. It is a bit shy in the high end and overall volume. OD and distortion are full of character.

Tone Tubby 10" alnico is one of the most impressive speakers I've tried. Loud, punchy, even and dimensional. Flattered every guitar and style. Sounded like a 12". Caveat, our test amp had a noticable rattle that might have been in the speaker, or the box.

Celestion G12-65 original
A very musical and friendly speaker that excels at everything from The Dominos to AC/DC. I hope the reissue is near as good.

EVM12L, mid 80's
A former EV user, I've been bagging on them for years. I was surprised by how good and versatile this speaker is. Flattered evey guitar and style.

Celestion Gold 12" Alnico
A modern classic with lots of headroom and an extra glassy EQ.

THE WINNER:
Whew, I'm too tired to choose. You'll have to do it for yourself.
Hope this information has been helpful to you all.

PS. Out of the 7 speakers, I'm still thinking about that Tone Tubby, and the G12-65. But the Oxford wins in the practice room.

[DC1]

Nice review.

I wonder how different the TT 10 is from the TT 12?


dc

[Gouxman]

It is hard to imagine it being better than the 10". I hope it is as good. Maybe we can hear from players with the TT 12" alnico.

[dividedsky]

Sweet shootout. Have a 10F150T (50 watt on order), hoping it's the one! I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a TT to though just because I'm here on earth and want to hear one at least once...same with the Gold. Too many speakers!

[Seegs]

I opted for the Scumback 12" & 10" H75 30 watt speaker and it has chime and top end for days...great speaker for a BF style amp...

Chow,
Seegs

[zombiwoof]

Good review. I'd like to know how the Red Fang 10" would have done in your comparison, but what you have is good.

Al

[dbeeman]

cool. surprised the TT 10 had so much high end

[Scumback Speakers]

Gouxman, sounds like the SA10H75 (heavy magnet 10") would have been the better choice for you over the SA10M75. Wish I had one in stock that was the right ohm rating for you, but another TGP member got the last one a week ago.

[Gouxman]

Originally Posted by Southbay Ampworks

Gouxman, sounds like the SA10H75 (heavy magnet 10") would have been the better choice for you over the SA10M75. Wish I had one in stock that was the right ohm rating for you, but another TGP member got the last one a week ago.

I can't imagine a better sounding 10" for any Marshall style amp. My friend was jumping around the room while I was playing through it.
I would like to play the heavy magnet version to see how it compares.

[Scumback Speakers]

Originally Posted by Gouxman

I can't imagine a better sounding 10" for any Marshall style amp. My friend was jumping around the room while I was playing through it.
I would like to play the heavy magnet version to see how it compares.

I'll see about making that happen. Hope your friend didn't bum into any of your gear and ding it.

[sralquist]

Originally Posted by Southbay Ampworks

I'll see about making that happen. Hope your friend didn't bum into any of your gear and ding it.

ok .. you got me ..I loved that speaker.

[Gouxman]

I'm wondering how the Tone Tubby alnico 10" or 12" compares to some of the other choices out there. Anyone using alnico by Celestion, Eminence, Scumnico, Weber, have you compared them to the Tone Tubby?

[soundchaser59]

Originally Posted by Gouxman

I'm wondering how the Tone Tubby alnico 10" or 12" compares to some of the other choices out there. Anyone using alnico by Celestion, Eminence, Scumnico, Weber, have you compared them to the Tone Tubby?

TT alnico 10 and 12 is better than the Weber alnicos. You will have quite a hard time finding something better than the 12 inch TT alnico. The alnico 15 inch Blue Dog is pretty good, too.

Being one who does not like distortion or breakup, I went back to the ceramics. But for loud cleans, especially for loud clean sustain leads, alnico rules and Tone Tubby rules alnico......imo. Just keep in mind that alnicos are more cab-sensitive than ceramics or neos. I got lucky and had a 2x12 ported and compartmented birch cab for my TT's. Ceramics will be more forgiving if you put them in the wrong cab. Alnico will start to suck if it's in the wrong cab, it will start to sound muffled and compressed.

[Gouxman]

Originally Posted by soundchaser59

TT alnico 10 and 12 is better than the Weber alnicos. You will have quite a hard time finding something better than the 12 inch TT alnico. The alnico 15 inch Blue Dog is pretty good, too.

Being one who does not like distortion or breakup, I went back to the ceramics. But for loud cleans, especially for loud clean sustain leads, alnico rules and Tone Tubby rules alnico......imo. Just keep in mind that alnicos are more cab-sensitive than ceramics or neos. I got lucky and had a 2x12 ported and compartmented birch cab for my TT's. Ceramics will be more forgiving if you put them in the wrong cab. Alnico will start to suck if it's in the wrong cab, it will start to sound muffled and compressed.

Why would the Tone Tubby sound better(or even different) than other alnicos on the market? Do you think it is the hemp? More headroom?

What constitutes a "wrong cab" for alnico? We played the TT in a Princeton cab, it doesn't get much simpler than that, open back. It was very happy in there.

[sralquist]

Originally Posted by Gouxman

Why would the Tone Tubby sound better(or even different) than other alnicos on the market? Do you think it is the hemp?

I would guess that it's a combination of things that make the Tone Tubby's such great speakers .. the hemp included. Although I did have a conversation with John Harrison (owner/creator of Tone Tubby speakers) about this and he said "the magic is in the hemp".