neck finish tung vs linseed

[kmcmichael]

A few years ago I put together a Stratocster or rather a partscaster. The neck was new and a nice piece of birdseye maple. I do not like lacquer necks on maple boards so I just put tung oil on it. Tung oil does not yellow much and it has been a few years and thought that I might put linseed oil on it now to bring out the birdseye more. I have heard that the linseed will remain sticky and not dry and feel like the bare wood of the tung oil finish.

Is this true?

The feel of the finish is very important on the neck of the guitar especially the fingerboard. I have been playing for 35 years and never liked the anything other than a bare wood fingerboard. I never really liked maple at all untill I had an unfinished one.

[RJLII]

Real Tung Oil, Danish Oil, and Boiled Lindseed Oil share many of the same qualities. All are absorbed into the wood and all "cure" after a time to form a protective layer in the wood, rather than on it. I use Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO) quite a bit in my woodworking hobby. It will impart a nice amber hue to the wood which will get a little darker over time. BLO really makes grain pop too.

Most folks cut it about 50% with mineral spirits or turpentine so it will soak in a little easier.

1) Clean the neck thoroughly with mineral spirits or turpentine and fine steel wool followed by a clean cotton rag. Let it dry for a day or so.

2) Apply the BLO liberally and let it soak for 15 or 20 minutes. Wipe off all the excess with a clean cotton rag. Let it dry for a couple days. You can repeat a couple of times if you wish. The previous application of Tung Oil may effect the rate of absorption.

Note: when the finish cures it creates heat that can ignite the BLO soaked rags. Soak them in soapy water prior to disposing of them, or better yet burn them on your terms (I have a campfire pit I throw them in).

3) After it's cured for at least a couple of days, rub the final finish down with the finest steel wool you can find (0000 works well) followed by a wipe-down with a clean cotton rag moistened with a bit of mineral spirits. Finish with a sparse application of paste wax (Briwax is best) and a good buffing.

The resulting finish winds up smooth as a baby's butt and you don't lose the tactile feel of the wood.

You can get BLO at most home centers. Make sure it is the "Boiled" version as it will catalyze to cure. Regular Linseed oil will feel gummy.

[donnievaz]

Another excellent alternative is Birchwood-Casey Gun Stock finish. It's a breeze to apply and is my favorite among hand rubbed finishes. A big reason for that is it seems to cure faster than any of the others I've tried. I used to be a big fan of Watco Danish oil but now I like this better. I've never been a big fan of BLO.

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by kmcmichael

A few years ago I put together a Stratocster or rather a partscaster. The neck was new and a nice piece of birdseye maple. I do not like lacquer necks on maple boards so I just put tung oil on it. Tung oil does not yellow much and it has been a few years and thought that I might put linseed oil on it now to bring out the birdseye more. I have heard that the linseed will remain sticky and not dry and feel like the bare wood of the tung oil finish.

Is this true?

The feel of the finish is very important on the neck of the guitar especially the fingerboard. I have been playing for 35 years and never liked the anything other than a bare wood fingerboard. I never really liked maple at all untill I had an unfinished one.

There are a ton of linseed based products and they are not the same. Most (e.g. Tru-Oil) are varnish type products that will dry well and build to a durable hard film surface. Pure boiled linseed oil does not dry as fast (but will eventually dry) and will not build as much of a film.

It is when you try to build up a heavy surface film with true boiled linseed oil that things can get ugly. Sure it dries, but it does not dry 'hard' - meaning all you get is a deep gummy mess.

IMO 'true' oils like pure tung and boiled linseed are about as close to raw wood as you can get while still qualifying as a finish.

If you are not sure of what kind of product you have the simple test is to pour out a thin layer on a glass surface then allow it try fully dry. Varnish type products will leave a realatively hardened film that can be peeled/flaked off (some are really brittle and will actually crack.) Boiled linseed oil will dry smooth to the touch but be much more gummy/soft and usually has to be scraped off. Tung based varnishes will also form a hard film, while pure tung will dry to a thin frosty haze than you can push off with your fingertips.

IME dried linseed has a very smooth silky feel, but not as smooth/fast as tung oil. It has nothing to do with actual dryness, it's just a subjective difference in surface feel. Kind of like the difference between polished lacquer and lacquer that has been scuffed to a matte finish.

But the real catch is that while linseed oil does tend to accent figure more than tung oil it does this by penetrating/wetting the surface of the wood. Since there is already tung oil present it is going to limit the ability of the linseed to actually get into the wood and change the diffractive qualities of the wood. Meaning you might not get much more birdseye 'pop' than you have now. But you will get the added yellow/warmth of linseed depending on how much you apply.

[donnievaz]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

There are a ton of linseed based products and they are not the same. Most (e.g. Tru-Oil) are varnish type products that will dry well and build to a durable hard film surface. Pure boiled linseed oil does not dry as fast (but will eventually dry) and will not build as much of a film.

It is when you try to build up a heavy surface film with true boiled linseed oil that things can get ugly. Sure it dries, but it does not dry 'hard' - meaning all you get is a deep gummy mess.

IMO 'true' oils like pure tung and boiled linseed are about as close to raw wood as you can get while still qualifying as a finish.

If you are not sure of what kind of product you have the simple test is to pour out a thin layer on a glass surface then allow it try fully dry. Varnish type products will leave a realatively hardened film that can be peeled/flaked off (some are really brittle and will actually crack.) Boiled linseed oil will dry smooth to the touch but be much more gummy/soft and usually has to be scraped off. Tung based varnishes will also form a hard film, while pure tung will dry to a thin frosty haze than you can push off with your fingertips.

IME dried linseed has a very smooth silky feel, but not as smooth/fast as tung oil. It has nothing to do with actual dryness, it's just a subjective difference in surface feel. Kind of like the difference between polished lacquer and lacquer that has been scuffed to a matte finish.

But the real catch is that while linseed oil does tend to accent figure more than tung oil it does this by penetrating/wetting the surface of the wood. Since there is already tung oil present it is going to limit the ability of the linseed to actually get into the wood and change the diffractive qualities of the wood. Meaning you might not get much more birdseye 'pop' than you have now. But you will get the added yellow/warmth of linseed depending on how much you apply.

Tru-Oil! That's what I was trying to say. Couldn't remember the name.

[RJLII]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

It is when you try to build up a heavy surface film with true boiled linseed oil that things can get ugly. Sure it dries, but it does not dry 'hard' - meaning all you get is a deep gummy mess.

Agreed, but the proper application of a BLO finish (or Tung Oil, or Danish Oil, or Tru-Oil) is one that does not create any perceptable film. You want the finish in the wood, not on the wood.

[kmcmichael]

I have used oil varnish blends such as tru oil on canoe gunnels, gunstocks and kitchen tables but would NEVER consider it on a maple fingerboard. considering the fact that I have already put pure tung oil on it and the BLO would probably not make the grain I have abandonded the idea.

Thanks for your replies

[testing1two]

Tru-Oil mixed with some Stew Mac Vintage Amber dye is my personal favorite:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/finely-fi...-me-yours.html

[kmcmichael]

I had not thought of using dye with tung oil!

[Boris Bubbanov]

Yes, you're lucky in New Mexico.

Heat and low relative humidity will make most of these oil finishes "go off" and thus a gummy or unhardened finish is less of a risk.

In the Deep South, esp. New Orleans, Florida, 100 pure tung oil will not work on a guitar type application, imo. Most of the year, it just sits there. I like a tung oil based varnish like Minwax Tung Oil finish - a lot of the polymerisation is already achieved - the actual percentage of real tung oil is low. Same general idea with the Birchwood Casey "Tru-Oil" product. Its a varnish, and basically finished linseed oil replaces the finished tung oil.

I like either as a base sealer over grain filler, before application of lacquer, as a substitute for shellac or vinyl sanding sealer. Or you can use it alone, and just keep the finish thin and gradually build more over months or years to counteract wear. Works best on tough woods like ash, purpleheart, maple, hickory and walnut. It provides less of an "impact layer" or "hard shell" and more of a simple moisture barrier.

[kmcmichael]

Boris you are correct and honestly I do not need any finish at all on the neck. However there are plenty of old strats in the South that no longer have any finish left on them. I realize that the wood is totally cured and I myself keep my 1960 in a safe in low humidity and have never had a problem.

However if I felt I had to use one of the varnish blends like Minwax, I would just go with a rosewood board.

You seem pretty experienced. Have you ever attempted a french polish finish? I may attempt it on a strat body.

[Keyser Soze]

I've done padded shellac on a couple guitars bodies. I say padded shellac and not french polish because my technique is slightly abbreviated and modernized.

Mainly I do not use pumice, I grain fill using modern filler, and simply use light mineral oil on a pad to build the shellac to a suitable thickness, then wet sand using micro mesh followed by buffing using plastic /acrylic polishing compound.

If you go this rout my tips would be to mix your own shellac from high quality flake and denatured alcohol. Quality flake dries much harder, given you much better long term wear resistance but also allows you to wet sand (I use mineral spirits here) and it being harder it takes a better polish (although you need to be real careful not to let it get hot during polishing/buffing - shellac hates high heat). Going with flake also gives you more color options. My personal favorite is garnet.

Be sure to give the built up finish plenty of time to dry before wet sanding and polishing - a couple weeks to a month. Sure a single layer dries in minutes, but a film built up over days takes much longer to really get dry. Just like with lacquer, if you rush things you will not be satisfied with the outcome. And remember, like lacquer, if you need to add layers you can do so at any time, just scuff the surface and apply.

[kmcmichael]

Keyser, I already have some garnet shellac both unwaxed that I use for other things and I purchased some waxed button garnet shellac for this endeavor. I was told by the vendor this would work better but do not know why.

[EADGBE]

Originally Posted by kmcmichael

I have heard that the linseed will remain sticky and not dry and feel like the bare wood of the tung oil finish.

Is this true?

I don't think so. I use pure tung oil on bare maple. And raw linseed oil on rosewood. Neither one seem sticky to me. Of course you have to let it dry for a couple of days. The wood seems to absorb it. Which is what you want it to do. If it is sticky after that you can lightly sand it with fine steel wool etc. And be careful with the oil soaked rags as they can spontaneously catch on fire. I paint it on with a paint brush. Let it sit for ten minutes. Then wipe all of the excess off. Let it dry between coats. Maybe a day or two.

[kmcmichael]

Originally Posted by EADGBE

I don't think so. I use pure tung oil on bare maple. And raw linseed oil on rosewood. Neither one seem sticky to me. Of course you have to let it dry for a couple of days. The wood seems to absorb it. Which is what you want it to do. If it is sticky after that you can lightly sand it with fine steel wool etc. And be careful with the oil soaked rags as they can spontaneously catch on fire. I paint it on with a paint brush. Let it sit for ten minutes. Then wipe all of the excess off. Let it dry between coats. Maybe a day or two.

Why do you use the differenct oils on those specific woods?