Gibson/Epi 57 Classic pup questions

[idk]

I finally got my hands on some pickups. I got some Tokai 57 PAFs off a member here at TGP. i gave them to a friend to install, thinking that was the answer to a whole bunch of problems i've been having with my guitar thus far(i'm sure many of you know so i wont repeat). He just measured the outputs and the outputs are lower on the Tokais than the Epis. is this normal? I'm a little torn because a higher output is supposed to be good? or maybe is a lower output pup supposed to be what i want? the possibility exists of me just leaving the stock Epi 57s in there. I think I'm lost all over again...

[Martin Reid]

Originally Posted by idk

I'm a little torn because a higher output is supposed to be good?

It depends what you're looking for, I go for mid/low output PUP's. I play blues / blues rock and like to hear the the tone of my guitars amplified. There's no right or wrong, it's just what works for you.

I have a Les Paul Classic that came with ceramic high output PUPs that sounded too shrill and attacking. I read how Slash likes Symour Duncan Alnico II Pro's for teh reasons I stated before, tried them and the tone I was after was there.

So, it's a magic mix of your guitar & amp, your music and playing style and most importantly your ears that will determine what works for you...

[walterw]

he may have measured DC resistance, but that's not the same as output.

with all other things equal, lower resistance (ohms) translates to a brighter and less loud sound, and more ohms usually means louder but darker.

higher output doesn't mean "good" at all. lots of cheap korean pointy guitars have ceramic-magnet 16k monsters with massive output, but i don't want one.

[idk]

The thing is i wanted to prevent having to buy another guitar for awhile(good luck with that one huh?). i want a guitar that can have les paul like thickness and fatness but have those great gretsch clean/low gain tones. I've never seen anybody with a guitar that combined the two types of pickups before, let alone in an epi dot or other semi-hollow. I played an SG faded the other day that i thought it was what i was looking for. i came to terms with maybe not needing filtertrons to get a good enough clean/low gain sound thats pleasing for me, but is a lower output pickup the answer for that?

i guess i was hoping that although the two pickups are essentially the same, that the Tokai would somehow sound better because its supposed to be more expensive. most people i know change their Dot pups to Gibson 57s, so there must be something to it right?

[idk]

Originally Posted by walterw

he may have measured DC resistance, but that's not the same as output.

with all other things equal, lower resistance (ohms) translates to a brighter and less loud sound, and more ohms usually means louder but darker.

higher output doesn't mean "good" at all. lots of cheap korean pointy guitars have ceramic-magnet 16k monsters with massive output, but i don't want one.

could you expand on this, sorry i'm really new. all i was told(not trying to knock on the guy) was that the epi pup has an output of 9.11k and therefore hotter, where the Tokai measure 8.19k. i do want brighter, so i may have made the right choice?

[WoodyStrat]

I have always found the lower output PUs gave better sounds to my ears than higher output PUs. There is a difference there but I doubt that it will be night and day! I like to think by using lower output pickups it allows the amp to do more work given the same volume. This is probably baseless but it makes me happy!!

[idk]

Originally Posted by WoodyStrat

I have always found the lower output PUs gave better sounds to my ears than higher output PUs. There is a difference there but I doubt that it will be night and day! I like to think by using lower output pickups it allows the amp to do more work given the same volume. This is probably baseless but it makes me happy!!

i hope thats true for me too!

[idk]

crud...the tokai pickup screws didn't match the epi pickup screws...back to bone stock

[Bluedano1]

I have an Epi 335 Dot and I replaced the stock Epi 57 pickups with Gibson '57 Classics and the difference in clarity (not volume, the Epis were perhaps louder) is like night and day. They sound great clean or dirty; not dark, balanced tonally and with each other as well. Plus you don't loose your pickups high end when you turn your guitar's volume knob down.

[HipKitty]

Originally Posted by Bluedano1

I have an Epi 335 Dot and I replaced the stock Epi 57 pickups with Gibson '57 Classics and the difference in clarity (not volume, the Epis were perhaps louder) is like night and day. They sound great clean or dirty; not dark, balanced tonally and with each other as well. Plus you don't loose your pickups high end when you turn your guitar's volume knob down.

That's because the most significant difference is in the wire gauge. The Epi's are mm, whereas the Gibby's are AWG (American Wire Gauge). The quality of their magnets also is a fact there.

[Bluedano1]

I guess if Epi just put Gibson Classic '57'S or similar in their guitars (and just went ahead and charged say, $100 for the upgrade) no one would buy Gibson guitars :-0 Just saying that cause I'm poor!

[WoodyStrat]

I have never heard anyone complain after putting Classis 57s in their Epi. Seems like the final answer! I put Burstbuckers in a Epi LP once and it was a significant difference. Sounded like the real deal! The main difference was more clarity and articulation. High gain was not as noticable but for clean and verge of breakup sounds it was significant!

idk - what about the screws did not work? Are they different size/thread? Are the mounting holes spaced differently? Just curious!

[forum_crawler]

I have an epi les paul and the answer to my tone shortcomings came in the shape of Seymour Duncan Alnico Pro II pickups. Very nice cleans, and very low gain applications. Granted, the Epi is not a real les paul, but it fleels 90% like a les paul, and it sounds, well, very much like a less paul with Alnico Pro II pickups.

[idk]

Originally Posted by WoodyStrat

I have never heard anyone complain after putting Classis 57s in their Epi. Seems like the final answer! I put Burstbuckers in a Epi LP once and it was a significant difference. Sounded like the real deal! The main difference was more clarity and articulation. High gain was not as noticable but for clean and verge of breakup sounds it was significant!

idk - what about the screws did not work? Are they different size/thread? Are the mounting holes spaced differently? Just curious!

pickup ring screws didn't match the tokai pickups

[tjmicsak]

Originally Posted by idk

The thing is i wanted to prevent having to buy another guitar for awhile(good luck with that one huh?). i want a guitar that can have les paul like thickness and fatness but have those great gretsch clean/low gain tones. I've never seen anybody with a guitar that combined the two types of pickups before, let alone in an epi dot or other semi-hollow. I played an SG faded the other day that i thought it was what i was looking for. i came to terms with maybe not needing filtertrons to get a good enough clean/low gain sound thats pleasing for me, but is a lower output pickup the answer for that?

i guess i was hoping that although the two pickups are essentially the same, that the Tokai would somehow sound better because its supposed to be more expensive. most people i know change their Dot pups to Gibson 57s, so there must be something to it right?

Try an Epi '56 Goldtop with the P90s. They thin out real nice rolled back but dimed are in my opinion very close to HB territory. Same with Thunderbird Pups.
"Vintage" would be lower wind, with more clarity and growl without snarl. I liken the vintage to Tube OD and ovewinds and hot Pups to Preamp gain which is just edgier.