Issue with a New Gibson J-45?

[alamancelaw]

I bought a new Gibson J45 at GC this spring. Took it to my luthier to set it up, and he couldn't get the action low enough, because he said the neck was set too low at the factory. Got GC to order a new one for me... Same problem.. Has anyone else had these issues with the new Gibson acoustics? Its the first high end guitar i purchased.. Kinda disappointed..

[Jahn]

It really is a crap shoot. Some are great, some are garbage. Quality control is all over the place, I'm sorry to say. But there are winners out there - try before you buy, if you can!

[platonicbomb]

Your problem is that it is a NEW J-45! I was spoiled and grew up on a '65 J-45. My dad traded a Sears auto harp for it in 1975, the first time it came out of the closet since a rich girl's daddy bought it for her new. There is nothing in my experience that speaks like a J-45, but it will take a couple of decades for even a well-built new one to open up like that. Good luck though!

['70 RS]

Originally Posted by Jahn

It really is a crap shoot. Some are great, some are garbage. Quality control is all over the place, I'm sorry to say. But there are winners out there - try before you buy, if you can!

Agreed.
Sorry you're having such a rough go at it, but if at all possible get your money back and get your Gibson from ANYONE other than GC/MF. The odds of getting a real keeper from them is pretty close to 'not at all'.

Plenty of shops out there that specialize in acoustics and look for the good ones.....GC/MF? Not so much. As has been written so many times before, a good Gibson acoustic is a great thing. In order to find a good Gibson acoustic takes a lot of time and effort, and passing over way too many dogs that somehow are allowed to leave the factory.

Best of luck to you.

[groovadelic]

You guys can't be serious. They're not that inconsistent - I've owned about a dozen since the late 90s and the guitars coming out of Montana are getting better.

Anyways, how low could you possibly want to setup your action such that your luthier is looking at the height of the fingerboard and determining whether or not it can be done? The guitars out of Montana have standard action pretty consistent even at GC (there's a checklist that states what it is right before it's packed). Most of the time the only thing you need to do is adjust the truss rod if the guitar has been sitting on the wall for a while and you'll have a good starting point on the action.

I'd say get a second opinion and let your ears be the judge. If you like the tone, just know that the lower the action, the thinner the sound. You don't want it too high where the intonation is all off, but you don't want it too low where it sounds like a toy guitar.

['70 RS]

Originally Posted by groovadelic

You guys can't be serious. They're not that inconsistent - I've owned about a dozen since the late 90s and the guitars coming out of Montana are getting better.

I'm very serious.

[tamader74]

AAHHH,GC,A place a guy/girl can go to see ALL the new misfit git's,Like, I dunno 57'strat.reissues w/the Mary Kay/blond finish w/gold hdwr, and case that was a gotta have @ 1500. @ a mom&pop store,that was BLOWN OUT For 999. only at GC,where the acoustic room is either set btw Brazil/Vietnam weather cond.s or north/south pole a place where you buy a pedal,use it for 29 days(or until the gig is done) return it in the box to be resold as new ...BUT a great place to get used traded-in gear at some loco price's if you KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR.

[rockabilly69]

GC Is alright with me. I've owned more guitars than I can count, but the two best electrics I've ever owned were bought from GC, a 2009 ES-335, and a 2008 PRS SC245 goldtop. You just got`to know what to look for, know what you want to pay, and get it before all the kids play it. I had the ES-335 drop shipped to my house with a 30 day guarantee, so no kid mitts on it, how can you beat that?

[Whiskeyrebel]

For the OP, what adjustments did the tech try to lower the action? Just the truss rod or did he try taking material off the bottom of the saddle?

Can this model have its saddle shortened or is the saddle bonded to a transducer?

How much does the action vary along the neck? Does it get higher at each fret or is it highest at say the 12th fret or at the body joint?

Originally Posted by '70 RS

I'm very serious.

And don't call me Shirley.

Originally Posted by platonicbomb

Your problem is that it is a NEW J-45! I was spoiled and grew up on a '65 J-45. My dad traded a Sears auto harp for it in 1975, the first time it came out of the closet since a rich girl's daddy bought it for her new. There is nothing in my experience that speaks like a J-45, but it will take a couple of decades for even a well-built new one to open up like that. Good luck though!

That would have made it an ADJ saddle model with a wood bridge, right? Ceramic or wood saddle?

I have a J50ADJ from around the same time. A guy I worked with got it brand new when he was a teen and never learned to play, so he sold it to me about 10 years ago. Despite what so many tell me, I'd never change it to fixed saddle.

[blacknblues]

I bought my J45 from GC a couple of years ago and it sounds great. Had it set up soon after and the action is nice and low with no buzz.

[GuitarsFromMars]

I bought/traded up from an El Cajon Taylor 710, to a Gibson Advanced Jumbo on Labor Day weekend, last year. It's started to open up and sounds superior. No issues with neck angle or playability. They should have an in house tech to set it up, with a new set of your guage/brand of strings, right there, for you. In the case of issues like this, the person who speaks loudly gets looked after. Shy and timid doesn't work at GC, nor does buying a Gibson acoustic without playing it. Too many variables.

[zombywoof]

So are you saying that the neck angle is such that no adjustments are possible or that your repair guy just cannot get the action low enough to suit your tastes?

Point it, too low an action ain't the best thing out there for an acoustic - you lose definition, volume and sustain. They can sound downright mushy. To get the most out of them you have to drive the top which requires a bit higher action and if ya really want to push it - heavier guage strings.

[walterw]

whether high action is better for tone or not, i'll be damned if i'm forced into it by a guitar with a bad neck angle!

what you want to look for is a fretboard that's exactly parallel with the top of the bridge (not the saddle, the wooden bridge itself). sighting down the neck from the nut end, the tops of the frets should line up with the top of the bridge. if the line of the frets seems to point down into the front face of the bridge, your neck is underset, and you won't be able to get the saddle low enough for comfortable action, and will compromise tone trying.

here's a bad neck angle, with a straightedge laid on the frets hitting the face of the bridge:


and here it is after correction:

images from chicago fret works

doesn't look like much of a difference, but we send back store stock acoustics all the time for not passing this test. when $100 hohner acoustic guitars get this right almost without fail, there's just no excuse.

this is not to say that gibsons have this problem a lot, because they don't.

[GuitarsFromMars]

Originally Posted by walterw

whether high action is better for tone or not, i'll be damned if i'm forced into it by a guitar with a bad neck angle!

what you want to look for is a fretboard that's exactly parallel with the top of the bridge (not the saddle, the wooden bridge itself). sighting down the neck from the nut end, the tops of the frets should line up with the top of the bridge. if the line of the frets seems to point down into the front face of the bridge, your neck is underset, and you won't be able to get the saddle low enough for comfortable action, and will compromise tone trying.

here's a bad neck angle, with a straightedge laid on the frets hitting the face of the bridge:


and here it is after correction:

images from chicago fret works

doesn't look like much of a difference, but we send back store stock acoustics all the time for not passing this test. when $100 hohner acoustic guitars get this right almost without fail, there's just no excuse.

this is not to say that gibsons have this problem a lot, because they don't.

Walter, thanks for correctly showing how it's supposed to look. Pictures continue to be worth a thousand words...

[alamancelaw]

Thats exactly what is wrong. and I have been in Alpha Music. great store...