Variations in Les Paul R9s

[NateFreezy]

I've seen huge (used) pricing variations with R9s, ranging from $3k to $5k. Is this really just a function of condition and the flame top?

Can anyone also say how the reissues, generally speaking, would be expected to differ from modern Les Paul standards in terms of quality, sound, etc.?

Thanks!

[Darkburst]

Big flame brings more money. R8's are basically R9's with a plain top. I used to own a couple of really good USA Standards. After playing a bunch of R9's I sold the Standards and got a couple of R9's. They have more vintage correct construction and PAF style pickups. That's not to say there aren't some amazing Standards out there or a some bunk Historics. Generally speaking the reissues are better.

[mwm523]

The price range of used R9s is based on a few factors, including condition, degree of flame top, and delusion of the seller.

There are also the variables of Braz boards (2003), and Murphy aging (big up-charge).

[tnvol]

I just cannot fathom how a guitar that costs as much as a Historic could end up a dud. I understand that they are all different but at that price point they should ALL kick total ass, just different kinds of ass. You can spin it anyway you want, but a 4k plus guitar anything less than mind blowing is a travesty. How do these slip through QC? You would think more attention to detail would go into these guitars.

[gkoelling]

Originally Posted by tnvol

I just cannot fathom how a guitar that costs as much as a Historic could end up a dud. I understand that they are all different but at that price point they should ALL kick total ass, just different kinds of ass. You can spin it anyway you want, but a 4k plus guitar anything less than mind blowing is a travesty. How do these slip through QC? You would think more attention to detail would go into these guitars.

Simple, they're made of wood.

There's no real way of knowing what a guitar will sound like until it's done.

[tnvol]

Originally Posted by gkoelling

Simple, they're made of wood.

There's no real way of knowing what a guitar will sound like until it's done.

Are guitars not done when they leave the factory?

[DonP]

Originally Posted by gkoelling

Simple, they're made of wood.

There's no real way of knowing what a guitar will sound like until it's done.

Good answer.

[mwm523]

Originally Posted by tnvol

Are guitars not done when they leave the factory?

Of course they're done when they leave the factory. But what do you expect them to do, tone test each one to find out which ones sound good and which ones don't? What would be the criteria for this tone test? Who would perform the test? Are you sure that person's opinion would be the same as yours? And what would you propose they do with the ones this person considered "duds"? Trash them?

[tnvol]

Originally Posted by mwm523

Of course they're done when they leave the factory. But what do you expect them to do, tone test each one to find out which ones sound good and which ones don't? What would be the criteria for this tone test? Who would perform the test? Are you sure that person's opinion would be the same as yours? And what would you propose they do with the ones this person considered "duds"? Trash them?

Yeah I do. Should a 200 dollar instrument get that attention to detail? Maybe not. But one as expensive as a Historic? Yes I do. If they don't make the grade, you don't sell them for the same price or you don't sell them at all.
Is that kind of attention to detail too much to ask for a guitar that retails for more than 5000 dollars? I could be wrong, but aren't these custom shop guitars? Shouldn't they be getting special treatment to begin with or do they roll off the assembly line just like the rest of them? Is a Historc LP made the same way a as plain jane LP Standard?

[mwm523]

That's silly. Where is the cutoff point that determines whether or not a guitar is good enough? Who is the judge?

This is why you can go into a store and play these guitars before you buy them. You as the buyer can filter out what you consider a dud, and find one that speaks to you. And honestly, the guitar you call a dud might become the most prized possession of the next guy that plays it and takes it home. It's all subjective, there's no real way to filter them at the factory.

[NateFreezy]

for tonal characteristics probably not, as mentioned rather subjective

quality control in terms of fretwork, finish, action, etc., definitely...

[gkoelling]

Originally Posted by tnvol

Yeah I do. Should a 200 dollar instrument get that attention to detail? Maybe not. But one as expensive as a Historic? Yes I do. If they don't make the grade, you don't sell them for the same price or you don't sell them at all.
Is that kind of attention to detail too much to ask for a guitar that retails for more than 5000 dollars? I could be wrong, but aren't these custom shop guitars? Shouldn't they be getting special treatment to begin with or do they roll off the assembly line just like the rest of them? Is a Historc LP made the same way a as plain jane LP Standard?

Completely unrealistic. They might as well cease production on all Historic guitars under your business model. Either that, or a R9 would run about $25k+.

Do you also deny that tone is subjective and that the next customer may love the guitar you deem unworthy?

[phoenix 7]

Originally Posted by tnvol

I just cannot fathom how a guitar that costs as much as a Historic could end up a dud. I understand that they are all different but at that price point they should ALL kick total ass, just different kinds of ass. You can spin it anyway you want, but a 4k plus guitar anything less than mind blowing is a travesty. How do these slip through QC? You would think more attention to detail would go into these guitars.

Even the best, most consistent boutique guitar makers produce the occasional lackluster guitar. I've played very few Historic duds. Some are better than others, but I don't think I've ever found one that sucked.

[tnvol]

Originally Posted by gkoelling

Completely unrealistic. They might as well cease production on all Historic guitars under your business model. Either that, or a R9 would run about $25k+.

Do you also deny that tone is subjective and that the next customer may love the guitar you deem unworthy?

Of course not. I'm in full agreement that tone is subjective. I guess it's just hard for me to imagine such an expensive guitar being a dud.

[gkoelling]

Originally Posted by tnvol

Of course not. I'm in full agreement that tone is subjective. I guess it's just hard for me to imagine such an expensive guitar being a dud.

That would suck more than a little, eh? However, if you play before you pay those chances are nil.