Taming brightness-best current production EL84 and 12AX7 voiced on the dark side?

[Garygtr]

I'm looking to "warm up" the tone of a somewhat bright sounding AC15-inspired amp sporting a Cele Blue that is still breaking in. Yes, I know about the tone controls and cut control, and the tone knob on my guitar, I am just looking to darken up the overall response a bit. Which current production EL84s and 12AX7s are voiced a bit on "the darkside"?

[VanR]

JJ 12AX7's are dark. RFT's too.

[Guitar Dave T]

JJ EL84's are fat and meaty sounding, making them appear dark, less glassy than, say, Sovteks.

[guitarsnguns04]

a longer guitar cable going into the amp will reduce some of the brightness too fwiw

[solitaire]

JJs are perhaps not bright in that sense, but they're edgy and the attack can be percieved as brightnes. Chinese pre-amps has less of an edge, RI TungSols and RI Mullards are kind of sweet; the TS for breakup and the M for clean.

For EL84s I'd go with Mullards or Genalexes/ Gold Lions

[Flameout12]

Originally Posted by VanR

JJ 12AX7's are dark. RFT's too.

+1.

[Dave_C]

Originally Posted by Garygtr

I'm looking to "warm up" the tone of a somewhat bright sounding AC15-inspired amp sporting a Cele Blue that is still breaking in. Yes, I know about the tone controls and cut control, and the tone knob on my guitar, I am just looking to darken up the overall response a bit. Which current production EL84s and 12AX7s are voiced a bit on "the darkside"?

The Blue is a very bright speaker unless driven pretty hard. I think one of the best places to start warming things up is with the speaker. There are lots of better choices out there for warming up a bright amp: G12-65 types, Eminence RWB, Swamp Thing, Cannabis Rex come to mind and I'm sure I'm forgetting many others. With any new speaker, I won't even listen to them until I've broken them in with a guitar loop hitting them with at least 50% of their rated wattage for at least 5-6 hours. Before that, you're not getting an accurate picture of what the speaker sounds like. Many will be way too bright, many way too dull and lifeless.

As for warmer sounding tubes, the JJ-ECC83 (I like the high gain ones), JJ-ECC803 and JJ-EL84 are great. I currently use the JJ ECC83 and EL84 in my Maz 18.

Also, don't overlook instrument and speaker cables!!! You will not believe the vast differences you'll hear, especially with distortion, if you start doing some quick swapping between various brands, especially the higher end varieties versus the lower end stuff. A great place to get a feel for cables is via the Lava Cable website. I really only have experience with the George L's, Tara Labs, Evidence Audio (HG, Siren I, Siren II), Cardas Crosslink and many cheap low end cables. Out of that bunch, the EA stuff has been the warmest and smoothest, but without any mud. Very balanced, clear, sweet tone. I just ordered some Vovox Sonorus (instrument) and Drive (speaker) cables though, so we'll see how that goes.

Lastly, have you messed with various pick types/thicknesses? That's another factor that can add/subtract quite a bit of brightness.

[Guitar Dave T]

Originally Posted by Jade

IME the JJ pres are a bit duller/darker sounding, and will take off some bite, especially the long plate 803S. Not my favorite 12AX7, but if you want to tame down the bite of an overly bright amp, it may be just the ticket.

As for the power tubes, I like the JJ EL84. They sound great.

Jade

Yep. I believe these are the best sounding current production EL84s on the market. Killer sounding tubes.

[TubezAmpz]

chinese pres are dark too. those and jjs. EH could work. Definitely not Tung Sol pres for taming brightness.

[DavidH]

JJs for both.. if that doesn't do the trick there are other issues.

Sovtek 12ax7 are bright and spikey and thin compoared to the JJs which are way fatter and darker. IME.

[Flameout12]

Originally Posted by TubezAmpz

chinese pres are dark too.

Shuguangs are probably the brightest 12AX7s being produced.

[5150user]

In general, I find that Chinese preamp tubes sound brighter than Russian preamp tubes. I too am fighting with an overly bright amp.

I found that installing a 12AT7 in V1, as opposed to the stock 12AX7 also helps, but you lose some gain in the process.

[Killcrop]

Originally Posted by Dave_C

The Blue is a very bright speaker unless driven pretty hard. I think one of the best places to start warming things up is with the speaker. There are lots of better choices out there for warming up a bright amp: G12-65 types, Eminence RWB, Swamp Thing, Cannabis Rex come to mind and I'm sure I'm forgetting many others. With any new speaker, I won't even listen to them until I've broken them in with a guitar loop hitting them with at least 50% of their rated wattage for at least 5-6 hours. Before that, you're not getting an accurate picture of what the speaker sounds like. Many will be way too bright, many way too dull and lifeless.

As for warmer sounding tubes, the JJ-ECC83 (I like the high gain ones), JJ-ECC803 and JJ-EL84 are great. I currently use the JJ ECC83 and EL84 in my Maz 18.

Also, don't overlook instrument and speaker cables!!! You will not believe the vast differences you'll hear, especially with distortion, if you start doing some quick swapping between various brands, especially the higher end varieties versus the lower end stuff. A great place to get a feel for cables is via the Lava Cable website. I really only have experience with the George L's, Tara Labs, Evidence Audio (HG, Siren I, Siren II), Cardas Crosslink and many cheap low end cables. Out of that bunch, the EA stuff has been the warmest and smoothest, but without any mud. Very balanced, clear, sweet tone. I just ordered some Vovox Sonorus (instrument) and Drive (speaker) cables though, so we'll see how that goes.

Lastly, have you messed with various pick types/thicknesses? That's another factor that can add/subtract quite a bit of brightness.

All good points. I would change the speaker. Its going to impact the tone way more than tubes. The Blues are great but don't work for everything. Everyone always looks to tubes, strings, cables etc...The speaker changes everything including feel. Maybe it's just easier to change a preamp tube or two than a mess of speakers???

Is the amp too bright with every guitar or some certain guitars?

However all the info provided on the tubes is interesting.

[Leo27]

I don't agree that Chinese tubes are bright. The Penta Labs Chinese Shuguang 9th generation 12ax7 is a very balanced warm high gain tube. On the other hand the TungSol Re-issue is more in your face and brighter but has clarity that can't be beat. (Mates well with SED Winged =C= 6L6GC power tubes. )

JJ EL84s seem to be the best but I've yet to try the highly touted Genalex Gold Lion. Check out this link. http://thetubestore.com/goldlionel84.html

[TubezAmpz]

Well whatever, I think they're dark. I also think that original mullards are over-rated. What do I know?