TGP Collective Super Chops Thread (Course Started 02/01/2010)

[dkaplowitz]

Note: The course has already started. A small handful of us (that I'm aware of) are doing the course. We are mostly just updating this thread with our progress as we work through the course. You are welcome to join in at any time, though. Or, for posterity, you can read up on what some of us went through while going through the course. Hopefully it's helpful information to someone.

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This other thread reminded me of the cool book by the late, great Howard Roberts called "Super Chops: Jazz Guitar Technique in 20 Weeks". I tried this when I went to GIT but I never finished. I've always wanted to complete the course, if only to say I did it, but also because I believe I could learn a lot about playing over changes by following the recommended (fairly rigid) guidelines and sticking to them.

Basically what the program is is this: Commit to 50 minutes a day doing this course, 6 days a week. It requires recording yourself playing a set of fairly complicated jazz chord changes for 10 straight minutes, then playing non-stop eighth notes (later triplets) over what you've recorded three times (30 minutes of playing over the changes continuously every day). There is a reason for playing only eighth notes, it's explained in the book. He suggests you use his chord voicings for the course, which are pretty hellish voicings if you're not used to them, but they're also quite rich and sumptuous! The changes are played mostly in whole notes (4 beats per chord), but some progressions have chords changing every beat (IIRC). The changes appear to start harder --several key changes per song-- (I think the first song is "Cherokee") and they progressively get simpler/more vamp-y towards the end of the course. He also recommends using at least size .012 strings on your guitar.

So, in the spirit of New Years' resolutions that will actually improve our tone (by making us better players), how's about some of us (who dare) collectively take this course on? In this thread we can share our experiences while going through the course. We can also share tips about how to approach the changes, etc. This type of interaction and sharing the process with each other can also help those who are participating through the rough patches of the course, and hopefully we'll all come out the other end achieving something cool and more importantly becoming better players. No competition is implied here, there's no need to compare tempos, and no pressure to share your recordings (though I'd love to hear some of you play through these changes!). It's more about encouraging each other to do the course as instructed, as difficult/painful as it can sometimes be (judging from my own personal experience trying it on my own for a couple weeks). Interested? Read on....

NOTE: This is entirely cost free, the book is linked to below, so you don't even have to buy the book. It's all about your own personal commitment to the program. The course isn't for everyone, and some might think it's rather silly. It's also quite a commitment, so I'd suggest anyone considering it take a look at the book and see if it's for them.

What you'll need:
1) a copy of the book (note: it's free, so you don't have to buy the book --which is long out of print anyway, just download from the link.)
2) some type of recorder to record yourself playing the changes so you can play your melodies/solos over them (nothing elaborate or expensive, it could be an old cruddy cassette recorder, it could be a looping pedal, it could be your home studio, you pick!)
3) a metronome/click for recording/keeping a steady tempo
4) a timer (like a countdown egg timer, digital are best, the wind-up kind are really inaccurate, YMMV)
5) a journal (nothing elaborate) to keep track of your tempos. You can just print out the pages in the book with the journal on them (each week has a journal in the book). Since the course started, I've just been using this thread as my journal. Again, whatever works for you.
6) The hard part: the ability to commit to at least 50 minutes a day working on the lessons/drills of the course.

WARNING: You need to be able to read a little bit of standard notation (mostly for getting the chord voicings off the page), and it helps to know how to read song forms, like 1st and 2nd endings, D.C. Al Capo, D.C. Al Fine, etc. If you need help with these, ask here, it's what this thread is for.

If you think you could get something out of a course like this and would like to join us in taking the course on, chime in below. I look forward to it!

Thanks for reading! And good luck!

Dave

P.S. The introductory pages of the book are quite good, so if you don't think the course is for you, do yourself a favor and read those pages. It's like a mini jazz guitar improv course.


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# Bonus - Matching Tunes to the Progressions in this Course!
# If you know which tunes are in progressions not mentioned below, please do share. It will help a lot!
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Weeks 1 & 2 = Cherokee AKA Koko
Weeks 3 & 4 = Angel eyes
Weeks 5 & 6 = Baubles, bangles and beads (?)
Weeks 8 & 9 = All the things you are
Weeks 10 & 11 = Blues for Alice

[jimfog]

I might be interested, Dave.

I'm curious though....has anyone had any major success with this course? Always wondered that. It's been around a long time, and I mostly hear folks talk about how they'd LIKE to give it a try!

[dkaplowitz]

Haha, I guess we'll find out, Jim. I do remember people at GIT talking about having done it, but they were mostly the faculty. I don't remember many students doing it. But I hung out with all the rock and shred losers (I'm counting myself in that group!).

[jazzandmetal?]

That looks pretty interesting.

I read through the intro and some of the other text. Seems to be a lot of good stuff in there.

I bet this works if for no other reason, it forces you to have a set practice schedule.

[kape]

Sounds fun.I'm in!

[DQuinlan]

I like the quote "Think of this program as training with the Chicago Bears, as compared to joining a health spa".

I'm in. I am a crap player, so it will be interesting to see the difference it makes to my playing. I will post weekly recordings and/or youtube vids to chart progress (or lack thereof).

Great idea Dave.

[Jay Mitchell]

Originally Posted by jimfog

I'm curious though....has anyone had any major success with this course?

There's a player who lives in Ft. Worth name of Clint Strong who studied with HR - I think HR actually took Clint "under his wing" for a time - some years ago. I'd imagine that Clint has been through the "boot camp" method. If so, it would appear to have worked out pretty well for him.

Here are some clips:

[dkaplowitz]

Glad to see some people signing on! I'm looking forward to it!

I practiced playing those chord voicings last night. Ouch! My hands are so out of shape! I remember one of the hardest parts being actually playing those chords for 10 minutes without screwing up! It looks like in the first few weeks at least I'm going to have to tack on learning the voicings for the coming week at the end of the practice session as well. I guess within a few weeks, they'll all seem fairly easy (I hope!).

I also checked out his example solo for week one, which had some nice ideas in it. I'll try to post any analysis I can come up with to help people with directions (and to help myself because I forget so easily) to take while playing over these progressions. He encourages people to listen to the progressions before playing them and try to map out a simple melody to focus on while playing over the changes.


Dave

[blue_lu]

I will definately do the course this year. I am working at getting my act together a little more. february sounds good.

[KRosser]

Originally Posted by Jay Mitchell

There's a player who lives in Ft. Worth name of Clint Strong who studied with HR - I think HR actually took Clint "under his wing" for a time - some years ago. I'd imagine that Clint has been through the "boot camp" method. If so, it would appear to have worked out pretty well for him.

Here are some clips:

<snipped>

He sounds beautiful. So interesting to me hearing someone play a Les Paul for jazz - I love that sound, personally

[Neer]

If you want to hear Clint at his best IMO, there are some clips on youtube of Merle Haggard on Austin City Limits performing Bob Wills tunes, with Clint on his Les Paul. Very focused playing, really excellent and in a completely different context, yet very Jazzy and swinging.

Here's a great one, Freeborn Man:

[hangten]

clint is a tasty player ~ hadn't seen these ACL clips in a while...
love the solo in the 2nd clip, plus he's rockin' a peavey!

[dsimon665]

I'm on week 2 of this course. The voicings are pretty tough for me - root position low on the neck and stretchy chords like that...and also some voicings I haven't played before. So there are some chords that are just uncomfortable but easy to read...and there are some chords that are easy to play but harder to read.

It took me quite a while to get to where I can record the progression. I'd say week two I spent about 2+ hours total on just getting the voicings down. Those 2 hours are not part of the course either (you only spend 10 min / day on chords). It is a good idea to start looking at the next weeks chart ahead of time.

For the 8th notes, the approach I have been taking so far is 'key centered' - using major diatonic and pentatonic scales for each key (and minor pentatonic for the one minor key in the wk 1 and 2 tune). I have been sticking with one position for each of the 10 min takes. So for example if first key is Bb I might sick with the 6th fret position...and then when modulating to Eb I would stay at the 6th fret position (and each subsequent key keeping to the same general area of the fretboard). Then on the next take move up to the 8th fret position for Bb....and so on practicing each of the CAGED type scale configurations. (so my total practice time/day was more than the 50 min).

Eventually I want to try other approaches like chord tones, and licks (as opposed to 'scalar')...so far I've learned a lot about the scale positions and keys I wasn't use to playing in before...and touched on a lot of other things too like keeping a line going across a modulation. It doesn't hurt to practice reading either.

[Jay Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Neer

If you want to hear Clint at his best IMO, there are some clips on youtube of Merle Haggard on Austin City Limits performing Bob Wills tunes, with Clint on his Les Paul.

I met Clint several months ago at the Dallas Guitar Show. He was playing The Benedetto Clint Strong Signature model (Bambino variation IIRC) for the first time in the Van Hoose booth, along with Howard Paul (President of Benedetto and brother of a good friend and professional colleague of mine) on his ex-Jimmy Bruno Benedetto 7-string. The two of them were incredible together.

Clint told me he inherited some money and no longer plays anything but jazz. He seemed quite happy, and his playing was much better than anything I've ever seen in a clip. Witty, quick, but always musical. Howard put it like this: "He never leaves a phrase or melody unresolved." I enthusiastically agree.

[dkaplowitz]

Originally Posted by dsimon665

I'm on week 2 of this course. The voicings are pretty tough for me - root position low on the neck and stretchy chords like that...and also some voicings I haven't played before. So there are some chords that are just uncomfortable but easy to read...and there are some chords that are easy to play but harder to read.

It took me quite a while to get to where I can record the progression. I'd say week two I spent about 2+ hours total on just getting the voicings down. Those 2 hours are not part of the course either (you only spend 10 min / day on chords). It is a good idea to start looking at the next weeks chart ahead of time.

For the 8th notes, the approach I have been taking so far is 'key centered' - using major diatonic and pentatonic scales for each key (and minor pentatonic for the one minor key in the wk 1 and 2 tune). I have been sticking with one position for each of the 10 min takes. So for example if first key is Bb I might sick with the 6th fret position...and then when modulating to Eb I would stay at the 6th fret position (and each subsequent key keeping to the same general area of the fretboard). Then on the next take move up to the 8th fret position for Bb....and so on practicing each of the CAGED type scale configurations. (so my total practice time/day was more than the 50 min).

Eventually I want to try other approaches like chord tones, and licks (as opposed to 'scalar')...so far I've learned a lot about the scale positions and keys I wasn't use to playing in before...and touched on a lot of other things too like keeping a line going across a modulation. It doesn't hurt to practice reading either.

Great work! Good luck with the course. Please keep us updated on your progress. It's an inspiration to be sure.

And thanks for the tips! I know for sure the one about studying the chords (and I'd imagine the song forms, with the D.C. Al Capo, 1st and 2nd endings, etc. which people who don't read a lot will find confusing) ahead of time will help a lot of people.

Dave