delay after poweramp

[jdalew619]

Hi all,
I've got a question here about post amp effects placement, if someone doesn't mind helping a brother out.

I am playing out with a 5e3 and Les Paul, at a restaurant/bar with a full band. The only effect I'm looking to use right
now is a Boss DM-2 delay pedal (maybe reverb later). I'm going for dirty, dirty cleans to full tilt overdrive.

I can get the dirty cleans by using the bridge pickup, guitar volume at 3. Going in front of the amp, the Dm2 sounds surprisingly good. I expected it to sound bad, as everyone seems to agree that time-based effects going before an overdriving amp don't sound good.

When I want more overdrive, I switch to the neck pickup, guitar volume at 6-7. I get some great tube saturation and compression. I have to kick off the delay though, or it WILL sound bad.

My goal is to find a way to use that delay even when my amp is overdriving. Does anybody have any experience with this? I'm really hoping that one solution allows me to use my DM2 and have it near me on the floor, not in the PA's effects loop.

Here's what I was thinking:
Mic the combo and put the DM2 in between the mic and the PA. With this I get my dry, unaltered sound coming through my combo, and the wet sound coming through the PA. I figure I'll have impedance issues, however, with the mic cable and the dm2, not to mention the issue of matching the mic's XLR with the 1/4 inch that the dm2 wants to see.

I've got three problems too:

1) I don't own the PA, we use the club's house PA, so I can't really mess around with the set-up before we are live.

2) I just spent a bunch of dough on gear and can't really afford to buy a bunch more (rack effects, ect). I used to think it would be viable to buy a cheap solid state poweramp (like a Crate Powerblock) and extra cab, and then just mic the combo, throw a delay in after the mic, re-amp the signal with the power amp, and send it to the extra cab. This is going to cost more $$$ than I've got to spend right now.

3) and the last problem: nobody goes through the PA right now except the singer. We have to be careful about being too loud. Would it sound more strange if only the singer and one guitarist (me) are going through the PA while the other guitarist, bassist, and drummer are not?

Thanks to everyone who reads this post and especially those who take their time with responses!

[Tibbonds]

Mic the amp, but put the mic straight into the mixer and put the delay in an effects/insert loop on the mixer.

[jdalew619]

Thanks Tibbonds. I talked to a local music store owner and another pro player around here and they said the same thing. My only problem is that I would really want to have control over when it is on or off, as I don't use the effect all the time. I usually use it for country licks and spacy overdriven leads, but I've found that delay sounds awful for my slide style, which I do half the time.
I suppose I could try and stand closer to the PA. Do you know if it's usual for players to have long send (and return) 1/4 inch cables coming to and from the PA's effects loop, long enough to put the effect on the floor? I'd probably need 8 feet or so each way.
I also wonder whether an Audio Technica XLR to 1/4 inch adapter, with a small impedance matching transformer inside (model CP8201) might help with the first scenario (mic--cp8021--delay--1/4 inch cable--PA).

Thanks so much for your help!

[strumminsix]

JD - my Yamaha powered mixer has the option of a pedal that can engage FX!

No it's not common. However, if it is your board, and your soundguy then it's your call!

You should look for that!

[Lolaviola]

For club gigs, I would not really mess with multi-amp setups myself.
Have you tried Guitar>input 1>out 1>delay>input 2?

[jdalew619]

Update:
I think I may have the first solution kind of figured out. Today at home I tried this setup:

guitar--tweed deluxe combo--mic--cp8201 xlr to 1/4 adapter--boss dm2 delay (set to two low volume repeats, 300 ms)--peavey classic 30.

It didn't sound bad! I probably wouldn't use this live ever, the classic 30 preamp would color the sound too much, and too many amps to carry around... I'd just use a 1/4 cable from the stompbox to the PA (maybe a volume pedal in between? hmm).
But it was fun to mess around with a full-blown overdriving amp, with a delay after it. I stood in the middle of the room, between the two amps, and the sound was huge.

Actually, the neighbors were gone today and I had time to mess around with a bunch of settings on the amp. I think I have finally found a setting where I can put the delay pedal in front of the amp, still crank the amp up, and get some great sounds.
Lolaviola, I haven't tried the dm2 between channels yet. I will give that a shot.

The gig is tonight so I'll see how it goes. I may go Amp-Mic-Delay-PA the first set, and if it sounds bad, then I'll go back to the dm2 in front.
Thanks everyone!

[Rob Eadgbe]

How about sending the miced signal to something like a Tech 21 Power Engine 30?

[DanJep]

You could try going the eric johnson route and buying a mic and a small portable 2 channel board and put your delay into that and then use the out on the board to go into the PA system.