Good setup for nailing Metallica's tone

[GNRman72]

I love metallica, they are one of my favorite bands and i want their guitar sound. I cant get it because i have a yamaha practice amp and a low gain tube amp but i want something that will get it perfectly. Money is not much of an obstacle, i have lots of it on hand right now and i make more becuase of my job. Im talking mostly about their master of puppets onward sound.

[doc]

I'll leave it to others to tell you specific setups to try, but I will make a quick comment. Remember that you're trying to duplicate the sound of something usually recorded in a studio, and sometimes amps cranked to a point you won't be able to often in small clubs or jam sessions. What works best for YOUR venue won't always be what people might suggest or even what Metallica actually uses. Always use your ears and try lots of things before laying down your cash.

[paulscape]

If money is not an issue buy the amps they used to record MOP which was a Mesa mark2c, rewire it as a pre-amp and run it through a 100w Marshall power amp. I think a lot of high gain amps will get you the tone if you scoop the mids, have emg active pickups, have good palm muting technique and a darker toned guitar (ie not maple cap). If you're after hammet's lead tone use active emg's, a tube screamer through a Marshall and bend notes slightly out of tune

[Ken Ho]

There is less gain that you think.
I can nail the MOP tone with my IIC+, but using a totally different set of settings to James, because I'm only using half the recipe and a fraction of the volume, so I have to use my ears and adjust the amp to get where I want.
People make a lot of crap dismissive blanket statements about these tones.
Listen top Kirk's tone on "I Disappear" and you hear a very thick low gain tone you can get out of a Dual Rectifier on "RAW" mode, but is not what people typically associate with either the player or the amp.
Get a good modern amp with a good gain channel and then work on your palm-muting chops. THAT is where it is at !!! The crispness of the toen comes from his technique rather than from specific amp settings.
A IIC+ is a good place to start, with a quad loaded with greenbacks. Not exactly what they used for sure, but as I said, I get that tone using a IIC+ into a H&K greenback quad, no Marshall power amp, no Mesa cabs. The best I have heard it was when a guy came to buy a Les Paul from me, and I plugged him into that set-up.
He not only bought the guitar, but walked away shaking his head in bewilderment at how good the tone was.
A Mark V will be plenty close enough on the IIC+ channel for what you want.

[tw6t6]

I agree with a lot thats already been said here. i nailed that tone with a mark IV. If money is no object, go find a IIC+. i also have no doubt that the mark V will get you there.

[Ken Ho]

Wasn't having a dig at you. I have a picture I found on teh net of James' settings, and I tried dialing them in. Apart from the fact that living things cannot co-exist in a room with a IIC+ turned up to 5 on the master, the tone I got was not MOP, which I attribute to not having the other links in that chain.
So I just fiddled around and got it using other settings, and at a tolerable volume.

Originally Posted by StockRock

Ken, I agree. Less gain than you think. I get close enough with my 60W IIC+ Combo with EQ loaded with a Celestion Gold, using an EV Thiele extension cab. If I turn it up to the volume they used, I can 99% nail it. It takes a little dialing in at lower volumes (boosting the presence a touch, among other things), but still, I doubt any Metallica fan would need to get any closer than I'm getting. And I used a Tremoverb into a quad of Greenbacks to get very close as well, though not as close as the IIC+.

So yes, the IIC+ on its own is a big part of the tone, and that alone will get you there. I haven't tried the Mark V, but I have no doubt that it would get one close as well.

I just posted the comprehensive info/links for interest. I didn't mean to imply "go get all the stuff I got." Those EQ/Volume settings published by Rasmussen, when plugged into a IIC+, will make any Metallica fan grin ear to ear.

[dangeroso]

Which Metallica tone? Kill em All sounds a bit different than Justice, which sounds a bit different than St. Anger.

Personally, I like the tone of Kill em All, which is very much the tone of solidbody Gibsons driving cranked JCM 900s.

[GNRman72]

Ride the Lightning sounded like he was using a chorus pedal, anyone else hear that.

[malko]

main problem with trying to emulate these tones is that what you are hearing over the speakers is the sound of maybe 4 tracks of the same part, colored by the mic/s and the mic pre, then perhaps eq'd and processed a little and replayed over your own speakers and coloured by your room.

[Waxhead]

Originally Posted by GNRman72

I love metallica, they are one of my favorite bands and i want their guitar sound. I cant get it because i have a yamaha practice amp and a low gain tube amp but i want something that will get it perfectly. Money is not much of an obstacle, i have lots of it on hand right now and i make more becuase of my job. Im talking mostly about their master of puppets onward sound.

If money is no problem get the new Mesa Mark V.
That combines all the Mark series amp tones plus adds lots more.
It'll get you close to the MOP tones plus almost anything else you wanna play.
You won't nail their studio sound with anything so check out their live work.
Should be able to get closer to that

[Ken Ho]

Originally Posted by StockRock

Ken, I think I have that same picture? The grainy one from Monty Jay's site of Crunch Berries with the extreme scoopage and the presence way down? I think those settings were purposely scrambled for that picture, almost a mockery, because those settings sound nothing like any Metallica song from that era. However, if you dial in the settings from Flemming Rasmussens site (the link I provided), and you can play at the volumes that those were played (they weren't diming the amps, and I can actually do it in my basement studio, though it's very loud on most songs), the tones are nailed. There is more clarity, more crunch, more punch and less distortion as you reach those volumes on a IIC+ vs typical at home volumes.

Kill Em All was a RAT pedal and a LOT of effects added at the desk, in addition to a very good sounding dimed Marshall modded by Jose, and Kirk has said early on they just dimed the TMB stack (they wanted as much gain as possible). I'm not sure what speakers they used, but that's where the body in that tone comes from, and it's hard to imitate a dimed Marshall at lower volumes. Also, even James couldn't/wouldn't. replace the Marshall when it was stolen after the first album.

Those desk effects, including some a lot of EQ, make it a little harder to hit. Still, if you dial in a really thrashy sound with a vintage-correct TS or RAT and some reverb on a loud Marshall or Marshall clone, it certainly works for for those songs. As do the MOP IIC+ settings. Depends how picky you want to get. I've hoarded a few Boss GE-10 EQs (the EVH ones) from the 70s - these provide a very transparent boost to the tone, and are helpful in hitting this tone (IMO, more than my '81 RAT, which seems to be more hissy than the record sounds).

For Ride and MOP, Fleming Rasmussen has said that the right amount of EQ at the desk was essentially none, and they didn't add much in the way of time-based effects at the desk. This is because by MOP, James hated pedals and hated reverb/echo/delay effects on guitars. Though he was layering quite a bit for hugeness, it makes the fundamental tone easier to attain today, if you have a IIC+.

The version of the IIC+ can matter too, as the IIC+ changed during its production run. Metallica liked the brighter ones, and they had a domestic model.

Could be the same. It's in the rioadcase with teh amp, I think.
I'm putting it into storage today, as I'm moving and going on holidays, so I'll dig it out and have a look.
I agree the pic does not show valid settings.
I'm no expert though. I just love the music, and love the amp.
I'm not into "nailing" tones. Give me a good tone in the ball park, and I'm happy as a clam.
There is another Boogie site that has lots of good info on IIC+ settings, which I used to help set mine up, might be grailtone, or something else too, not really sure.
Mine is export model, 60/100, eq, non-simul-class, combo converted to head.