How can you use the magic number of 83 db SPL to your benefit?

[rlm297]

Could someone raise the cloak of mystery off of the magic number of 83 db SPL? I understand this is a general cut-off point for the loudest most people's ears can take.

This seems like it'd definitely come into play while Mastering an album.

However, my question is.. how can this knowledge be used to one's advantage during the actual Recording and Mixing stages, before Mastering?

Would there be any clear benefit/use of purchasing a Radio Shack SPL handheld meter during Recording and Mixing?

(ie. Using the meter to determine how loud of natural signal will be actually captured to tape, provided you set your DAW's input levels properly.)

Do professional studios actually measure SPL's from miked amps or do they just "crank their amps until the tubes are hot"? Kind of curious if when a signed guitar player brings in X amp to a Professional Studio, if the engineer immediately knows.. "Ok, Bogner Uberschall Rev. Blue.. EQ it up however you want it.. but the Master Volume goes and stays here. Don't touch the volume on your guitar."

Just not satisfied with "winging it" with recording and want to try out a little more scientifically based stuff.

[Timmylikesthing]

It's an art. Not a science. It doesn't matter if the amp is loud when you're recording it. It doesn't matter if the monitors are loud when you mix it.

SPL is worthless in this regard.

Recording isn't a true science. It's an art.

[gtrnstuff]

The statement is interesting. MY listening comfort level is between 75 and 80 dB as measured by my Shack meter. I sometimes listen softer and louder to check a mix or a part.

I've played in situations that were much louder, but even with younger ears, the fidelity and definition really start to crumble.

As far as recording, whatever gets the tones you like. Agree with timmylikesthing there. In 35 years of recording I've never seen any engineer use a dB meter out in the room. If they need more or less level into their rig, they'll ask, or they'll change something out.

[MichaelK]

Originally Posted by rlm297

This seems like it'd definitely come into play while Mastering an album.

It doesn't. Really.

[loudboy]

Doesn't it refer to the level where the ear's response is the most flat, according to Fletcher/Munson curves?

We had a meter hanging around and I put a little mark on our fader at about 85dB, for average program material. It was interesting because that was where I had spent most of my time, when mixing.

[seriousfun]

Originally Posted by rlm297

... 83 db SPL? I understand this is a general cut-off point for the loudest most people's ears can take.

....

No, this is an average level that can be a target for much music listening.

Generally, at 120 dB SPL or above, we can damage our hearing.

There is no general standard for music, but for movies, an average level of 85 dB SPL with 20 dB of headroom is used. The speaker systems are designed and calibrated to this reference.

This really isn't relevant to playing or recording a guitar amplifier. Make that sound the way you want, put a mic in front that can handle the dynamic range of the source, and record it without having noise or distortion overtake the recorded signal.

Yes, a RS SPL meter (the analog meter with the needle, not the digital one) is a great tool. Yes, I have seen many, many mixing and mastering engineers use a meter like this as a visual aid (never the final determinator of monitoring levels).

[bkd_guitarist]

Is that the number for prolonged listening? Many concerts are well above 100db. We exceed 100db at church from time to time and no one complains.

[Bassomatic]

I used to play in a Balinese gamelan group. Talk about your heavy metal - a dozen or so people wailing away on bronze keys, pots, and gongs, many fitted with resonators. A dB meter revealed we were subjecting our ears to the decibel level of a NY subway train pulling in. It's all about *what* you're listening to, timbrally, where levels are concerned.

[Sunbreak Music]

Originally Posted by bkd_guitarist

Is that the number for prolonged listening? Many concerts are well above 100db. We exceed 100db at church from time to time and no one complains.

They do, you just can't hear them.

[Somniferous]

Originally Posted by Timmylikesthing

It's an art. Not a science. It doesn't matter if the amp is loud when you're recording it. It doesn't matter if the monitors are loud when you mix it.

SPL is worthless in this regard.

Recording isn't a true science. It's an art.

I disagree about mixing levels. The louder you have the mix level, the more hyped the speakers become making mixes "sound" better. 85 dBSPL tend to be the spot where our ears frequency response is mostly flat (according to Fletcher Munson curve, it also has an 8 hour exposure time), so that is usually where a lot of AE's tend to listen at while mixing (that is of course as long as they are mixing alone, musician's always want things to be louder) While mixing you of course should always do the low level test (to hear if vocals and snare are at the correct levels) and the loud level test (to hear it how normal concert goers would listen to music) Recording levels do matter as much, ie a guitar cab, as long as you aren't causing distortion in the signal chain.

In case you are wondering recommended exposure time to 100dB is about 15mins depending upon the source and frequency. OHSA standards will say about 2 hours, but they set the weighting on dBA slow response so the exposure time is way high.

Recording might be an art, but it's based on a ton of science. Remember that the first audio engineers were actually electrical engineers and wore lab coats while recording.

[seriousfun]

Originally Posted by bkd_guitarist

Is that the number for prolonged listening? Many concerts are well above 100db. We exceed 100db at church from time to time and no one complains.

Originally Posted by Bassomatic

I used to play in a Balinese gamelan group. Talk about your heavy metal - a dozen or so people wailing away on bronze keys, pots, and gongs, many fitted with resonators. A dB meter revealed we were subjecting our ears to the decibel level of a NY subway train pulling in. It's all about *what* you're listening to, timbrally, where levels are concerned.

Hearing damage is hearing damage.

The physical parts of your ears that can be damaged by loud sounds will not heal.

A good mix, in any venue, at 85 dB with 20 dB of headroom, is tolerable and probably not damaging. And almost impossible to find.

[Bassomatic]

Originally Posted by seriousfun

Hearing damage is hearing damage.

The physical parts of your ears that can be damaged by loud sounds will not heal.

I'm well aware, having studied both psychoacoustics and anatomy & physiology. My point was that the nature of the sound - persistent level (subway) vs. varying, musical dynamics (gamelan, or most music) will have a lot to do with how tolerable we might find it.

[meterman]

I was just reading about this in a thread over on the Reaper forum. The general gist of it as absorbed by this newbie was two things:

1) 83dB is where the hearing/frequency response curve is flattest. It's really not that loud (I bought a Radio Shack SPL meter to measure my mixing SPLs and 83dB was quite comfortable to me). If you can get your mixes to sound good at volumes below 83dB they will generally sound better if they are played louder, but if you mix at louder volumes, your mixes may sound bad at low volumes b/c of the influence of the Fletcher-Munson effects on your mixing decisions. The recommendation was to try and get your mixes sounding good at conversational volume (saving ear fatigue in the process), ensuring that they sound good at both low and high volumes not just high volumes....

2) when making comparisons and decisions about processing when mixing, it's important to do it using level matched listening. In other words, adding a compressor to punch up a track might sound better, but if it also makes it louder just the volume increase will make it "seem" better. So you have to evaluate using level matched listening, to separate the perception of improvement from increased volume, from the actual improvement (or not) of the processing applied.....

[Marcocet]

Yup, louder often sounds better. It's hard not to mix loud when you have clients on the couch behind you. Even if YOU know that it's gonna get better when you turn it up it often makes them nervous. The hardest part of recording bands is keeping them in the right state of mind long enough to do your job.

As far as SPL is concerned in recording the level in the room might cause you to have a better idea of the actual sound, but other than how it influences your decision making it doesn't effect the end result. People have volume knobs on their own stereos, they'll turn it to where they want to hear it.