Im in pentatonic hell

[Glowing Tubes]

Hi guys,
Im not a bad player but I find myself unable to get out of my little pentatonic box. After seeing so many great players at NAMM, Im dying to change my playing. I can not read music or tab.
Any suggestions?

Thanks

AG

[Mark C]

Listen to some players you dig and pick out their licks by ear (get the amazing slowdowner or slowgold for your computer). Take a few lessons and learn some new scales. It's not that hard to find new ideas, you just have to be open to them. Good luck.

[-kk-]

Ditto on Mark's suggestions.

Im almost in the same boat, cant read music to save my life, but getting the hang of tabs. its really not that difficult, hey if i can understand it, ANYONE can

Id say to concentrate on a selected scale (esp if youre learning on your own), eg dorian, and familiarize yourself with it. next step is to listen to artists eg santana and try to dissect their playing. it can be challenging but very rewarding as well.

there's also another thread on practice routine that has some good suggestions.

good luck!

[Hipster Dofus]

Try going from major pent to minor and back, over 7 chords...

Lots of the masters did this, Like Freddy King.

Try major on the I chord, and minor over the IV, & V.

Add the major notes to the minor Pent and find the ones that fit,

In A minor pent, the B, F#, C#......

[RobertMiller]

By "stuck in the box" I assume you mean the first position (root on sixth string) which is the "Chuck Berry" position if you will. You can have fun with this position forever if you like. But the real fun begins when you connect the other boxes or positions and then add the accidentals. Google "pentatonic minor boxes" and look for the torvund.net link - gives you a grid of all the positions. Learn those (you will intuitively know how to connect some of them just from your playing experience), and add the accidentals by ear.

For the pentatonic major positions, the most intuitive way to get started is to arpeggiate up and down on the C A G E D triad voicings. Hopefully this helps and isn't redundant for you.

[Mr.Hanky]

You can arpeggiate each chord for one.
Or switch penta scales with each chord for a little variety.
Start looking at the chord being played, not the key that the entire progression is in.

[decay-o-caster]

Hi, Richard - good running into you (often!) at NAMM.

One thing that kick-started my playing quite a bit is learning the about the CAGED system. I'm sure there must be a site somewhere that lays it all out, but in the meantime, think in terms of the open-string chord positions, but moved to where they need to be for the chord you need to play. Start on the top three strings, for example. So an A major chord would be:
--0--
--2--
--2--
or
--12--
--14--
--14-- (the "A" shape)

or
--5--
--5--
--6-- (the "E" shape - think of a barred E shape on the 5th fret)

or
--9--
-10--
--9-- (the "D" shape) etc.


Then learn the minors and the sevenths. And when you get around to it, the fourth, fifth and sixth strings. But start on the top three strings because it's more manageable to have a smaller set of things to begin with.

The usefulness of this is that it gives you the arpeggios, for one thing, and for another, it gives you places to go to get out of the box. Learn the major or minor pentatonic shapes around the chord shapes, but emphasize the chord tones and it will help you outline changes much better. For the A to the D in a blues progression, tie the shapes together in easy ways:
--5-- --5--
--5-- --7--
--6-- --7--
The notes of the two chords are near each other, but have interesting differences (the major 3rd in the A moves up a fret to the 1 in the D chord, for instance).

There's lots more to this, and as I said, I'm sure lots of folks have written about it (I learned it from Shades), but doing this has really helped me unlock the neck and get out of the pentatonic boxes I used to be stuck in. I find it much easier to play melodically and to define chords better.

And hey, we all know the open position chords, so you don't even need to learn new fingerings!

[Paychek]

Richard
Hey bro, welcome back to NM. Hope you had a good time at the NAMM.

EMAIL SENT WITH SOUND BYTES!!
I THINK THIS WILL HELP

Mikey

[Glowing Tubes]

Thanks for the tips guys.

When it comes to this stuff, Im a total dunce. Cant read tab. For me it has always been by ear which is good in some ways, not good in others. Most of your generous suggestions are way over my head unfortunately.

Richard

[telest]

Hey Richard, TAB is easy to learn, no problem. You owe it to yourself to learn it and maybe find a good teacher. I was stuck for a long time, then I took a few theory lessons from a good teacher and it opened a lot of doors for me. Of course that was years ago, now I'm stuck again, just on a little higher level.
Good luck.

Steve

[kingsxman]

David, that was an excellant way to lay out that information. I also struggle with getting out of the minor pentatonic box. I need to spend some time with my Fretboard Logic book I have.

Also, I think someone else mentioned "THink about the chords your playing over...not the key". I think that is a key point also. I tend to just say "oh...we're in A so I can noodle aroudn this Am pentatonic box pattern". Knowing the difference in the pattern over the chord your playing will help. I think however that to tie those together I probably need to learn where all the notes are on the fretboard. Starting with the top 3 strings seems like a good plan. I struggle with "I'm going from an A chord to a D chord...now where is that D note on the 2nd string". I took a few lessons a couple years back and the teacher described wanting to have "landing notes" to hit on the chord changes. That seems like a good idea also.

[jroot]

Hey bud. I feel your pain. 2 weeks ago I purchased a DVD/Book called FRETBOARD LOGIC SE. It is beginning to open new doors for me and has me thinking in new directions. I have been playing 20 years and am finnaly able to start grasping the concept of how this stuff fits together. He presents it in a logical way yet I don't get that math vibe. Good luck in your journey from the penatonic hell. and take care man.

[Garygtr]

Check out "Fire and Flow Pt 1 and 2" on truefire.com, originally in GP mag. Jimmy Herring shows some very simple ways to break out of the pentatonic blues in a way that is very easy to apply

[Jon Silberman]

Originally posted by shinrock
listen to the beatles

Excellent suggestion and, now that I think about it, a similar suggestion to the one I was going to make: change your focus from scales and arpeggios to chord tones and intervals. A good teacher can help you with that.

[grism]

Originally posted by decay-o-caster
Hi, Richard - good running into you (often!) at NAMM.

One thing that kick-started my playing quite a bit is learning the about the CAGED system. I'm sure there must be a site somewhere that lays it all out, but in the meantime, think in terms of the open-string chord positions, but moved to where they need to be for the chord you need to play.

The CAGED sequence is thoroughly explained by Bill Edwards in his book "FretboardLogic SE" ($16 at Amazon.com). It really helped me to understand the reasoning behind the layout of the guitar fretboard and how the 5 root chords (C, A, G, E, D) are related. Its certainly not the end-all of guitar instruction but theres lots of good stuff in it, and its written to be understood by experts and beginners alike. I bought it and it remains part of my library.

Its worth at least a flip-through if you can find it at a local music or guitar store.