Marchione Guitars vs. Other Well Known Luthiers?

[nik]

Originally Posted by joeh77

I thought it would be interesting to post these here. Since this thread is about archtops, and I have said I am waiting for a Campellone. Here is a link to photos of my build in process. Mark has been kind enough to send me photos of the build.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1897589...7623547620122/

Thanks for looking!

Joe

Those are great photo's. What model is it going to be? Mark builds a beautiful guitar. I'm sure you will be very happy with it!

[tejastubes]

Originally Posted by purestmonk

Hey Joshua, which other high-end archtops have you played before before?

As of late, D'Aquisto, D'Angelico, a hand made Bennedetto, Ribbecke and a few others.

Originally Posted by jads57

Joshua, Thanks again for your info regarding Marchione Archtops. But again a couple of things need to be stated a little bit more clearly.
All of the players you list playing Marchione archtops is not that accurate. I went on
his website, and these are current and former clients he has done work for some solid body build, classical guitars, and some repair work for as well. One that confused me was JK/Herbie Hancock connection. I believe that JKwebsite is a production studio, so I don't quite understand the guitar connection to Herbie Hancock. I also understand your love/passion for Marchione guitars, and I'm very happy for you. But that said invoking the Ferrari comparison is not quite accurate, since Ferrari is an older established brand name like D"Aquisto.
And while Mark Whitfield is a fine guitarist, since he's endorsing it w/ his name as a brand I'm assuming he's receiving a royalty for every guitar sold.
It would be nice to hear from other people who have played Marchione archtops in particular as well. Again thanks!

Jads57, I am sorry but I have lost my patience.

JK was Herbie Hancock's guitar player, before he released his solo album on Verve records. He is also a producer in NYC.

I did not post that the entire list were all playing Marchione archtops and if you re-read my post you will see that it was very clear and accurate. What I listed as far as archtops, which was accurate, was Mark Whitfield, JK, and Faton Macula.

You seem to be trying to disqualify Mark Whitfield because he endorses them. He chooses to play Stephen's guitars, and he is a monster player, and could probably command just about any archtop endorsement deal he wants. I am glad he has chosen Marchione's work. I do not know if Mark Whitfield receives a royalty or not for "every guitar sold" as an endorsee, I doubt it. You will have to call Stephen about that and ask him yourself, Or perhaps you could call Mark Whitfield and ask him? Its really none of my business and in this conversation, is quite unrelated. Let me know what Stephen or Mark tell you after you call them.

Also, you seem to be in almost every post be calling into question the value of Marchione's archtops, implying indirectly, that they are not worth what he sells them for. You PM'd me inquiring about the pre-owned Marchione archtop I had for sale, and then you PM'd back stating that you did not have the money, and that you would have to sell your house in order to be able to afford one, and then you start this thread, which although you state is not intended to be a pissing match, seems to be directly aimed at calling into question the value of Stephen's work. I have read some of your other posts on TGP in another thread about Dumble amplifiers where you call into question the value of Dumble amplifiers and actually call Dumble an a**hole.

Another poster questioned why you do not contact Stephen directly rather than bringing this to a public forum? I thought the same thing myself especially since you don't have the money for one anyway.

Originally Posted by rpguitar

In my opinion, unless it makes espresso or somehow fulfills your basic, er, physical needs, there is only just so much quality and "wonderfulness" that can ever be squeezed into an archtop guitar. And at a certain point you are, quite simply, paying for something other than raw quality and craftsmanship.

I have the same beef with Ken Parker's phenomenal archtops, but at least those are really pushing established design boundaries and trying to do something new to the basic instrument.

Comparing a Marchione with Campellone or any other well-respected American maker is not like a Ferrari vs. Hyundai comparison. They are both Ferraris, Lamborghinis, or Maseratis. They all "go fast."

No, they are not all created equal. Sorry but you do get what you pay for, and what is clear is that alot of builders and their customers want to feel their work is in the class of a Marchione or a private practice Ribbecke, when they simply are not.

Joshua

[jads57]

Again thanks for your opinions on Mr Marchiones guitars. I think everyone knows how passionately you feel about his guitars by now. And again w/out having the opportunity to try one in person I'm asking other people's opinions about them.
As far as Howard Dumble , you are quite correct about my choice of words in describing him. What you may not know is Howard Dumble took my freinds money and never delivered an amp or returned his $2.5 K to him either. I also have owned 2 Dumble OD Specials from circa1980. One was incredible the other not so much.
I believe that a person has every right to ask for other peoples insight's as well as their opinions about someones product/work. Other wise what would be the point of this or other forums. I also believe Mr Marchione would correctly expect or welcome people to ? the value of his work as well. Again I've never said his guitars are not worth the asking price, or claimed is work is inferior to other well respected luthiers such as Brad Nickerson, Mark Campellone, or Ted Megas. In fact I believe it is your opinion stated quite clearly in the previous threads that says his Archtops are superior and therefore are worth more $$. I'm quite happy that's the way you feel. and am glad you've found your perfect archtop. I've quite simply asked other people to add their voices into this conversation. As far as Mark Whitfield, he is a very talent guitarist who also made his previous guitars both Gibson as well as Ibanez sound wonderful as well. It is interesting to note that Russell Malone who used to play a fairly high priced Buscarino stated in his Vintage Guitar article. That he felt a Gibson L-5CES did the job equally well and therefore quit playing his Buscarino.
I absolutely can understand that a custom made instrument should cost more $
My question is then given the plethora of great luthiers out there. Is it just supply and demand or is it the actual labor, or simply people are willing to pay that $$ for Mr Marchiones's instruments.

[tejastubes]

Originally Posted by jads57

Again thanks for your opinions on Mr Marchiones guitars. I think everyone knows how passionately you feel about his guitars by now. And again w/out having the opportunity to try one in person I'm asking other people's opinions about them.
As far as Howard Dumble , you are quite correct about my choice of words in describing him. What you may not know is Howard Dumble took my freinds money and never delivered an amp or returned his $2.5 K to him either. I also have owned 2 Dumble OD Specials from circa1980. One was incredible the other not so much.
I believe that a person has every right to ask for other peoples insight's as well as their opinions about someones product/work. Other wise what would be the point of this or other forums. I also believe Mr Marchione would correctly expect or welcome people to ? the value of his work as well. Again I've never said his guitars are not worth the asking price, or claimed is work is inferior to other well respected luthiers such as Brad Nickerson, Mark Campellone, or Ted Megas. In fact I believe it is your opinion stated quite clearly in the previous threads that says his Archtops are superior and therefore are worth more $$. I'm quite happy that's the way you feel. and am glad you've found your perfect archtop. I've quite simply asked other people to add their voices into this conversation. As far as Mark Whitfield, he is a very talent guitarist who also made his previous guitars both Gibson as well as Ibanez sound wonderful as well. It is interesting to note that Russell Malone who used to play a fairly high priced Buscarino stated in his Vintage Guitar article. That he felt a Gibson L-5CES did the job equally well and therefore quit playing his Buscarino.
I absolutely can understand that a custom made instrument should cost more $
My question is then given the plethora of great luthiers out there. Is it just supply and demand or is it the actual labor, or simply people are willing to pay that $$ for Mr Marchiones's instruments.

Yes professional recording artists and other musicians are, obviously, willing to pay for Marchione's guitars and if you look at the caliber of players and his partial client list on his website, you can clearly see that is not just me who feels passionate about the caliber of instruments he produces.

Again, my patience with you is pretty much gone as you are not really being straight in this thread, as well as you skirting the questions I and others reading this thread raised about what your true intentions are. Everyone has the right to ask questions about a luthiers work, its just the implications of your posts throughout this thread are pretty clear, coupled with the fact that you have stated you do not have the money for one, but yet you initiated this thread which "calls into question" if Stephens work is really worth it or not.

Even your above line stating that Mark Whitfield made both his Gibson as well as Ibanez sound wonderful as well seems to imply a devaluation of him choosing to play a Marchione now, and this same implication is just as clear when you say that Russel Malone felt his Gibson L5 did the job equally as a high end archie like a Buscarino. Your position and tone is crystal clear.

Too bad you sold those Dumbles when you did,,,had you held tight you would probably have a boatload of $$$ as well as some left over for a high quality archtop guitar like a Marchione.

If you are genuinely interested in playing a Marchione archtop, you are welcome to fly down to Houston when we have one that is available for you to play, and I would be more than happy to arrange a tour of Stephen's studio for you.

[jads57]

Wow, I'm not even sure how to answer accusations you are accusing me of. It seems as though you are on a personal crusade to discredit my questions.
Yes I've owned some very valuable gear in todays economy. Is it actually worth the $$ as a musical tool. The simple answer is no! That goes for my past Dumbles, 50's Les Pauls, Strats & teles. If you are measuring in status and bragging rights they probably are. But as actual usable musical instruments
they don't even come close to the asking price.
So when someone asks a lot of money for their product, I begin to ? why is it worth that amount. If it actually turns out to be worth it, great I want to know.
And if it turns out to be just simple profiteering I would also like to know.
But just because you have the $$$ invested in one of Mr Marchiones guitars does not qualify you as an unbiased expert. And again all of those credentials on his website are not neccessarily archtop or even instrument endorsers.
I can not find one review of his archtops on Google or Harmony Central for that matter. Maybe 15-20k is not a lot of money in your world, But to me as an actual
working musician for over 30 years it sure is to me! My suggestion to you is enjoy your guitar and be happy/w your purchase! As for me I'm still looking.

[tejastubes]

Originally Posted by jads57

Wow, I'm not even sure how to answer accusations you are accusing me of. It seems as though you are on a personal crusade to discredit my questions.
Yes I've owned some very valuable gear in todays economy. Is it actually worth the $$ as a musical tool. The simple answer is no! That goes for my past Dumbles, 50's Les Pauls, Strats & teles. If you are measuring in status and bragging rights they probably are. But as actual usable musical instruments
they don't even come close to the asking price.
So when someone asks a lot of money for their product, I begin to ? why is it worth that amount. If it actually turns out to be worth it, great I want to know.
And if it turns out to be just simple profiteering I would also like to know.
But just because you have the $$$ invested in one of Mr Marchiones guitars does not qualify you as an unbiased expert. And again all of those credentials on his website are not neccessarily archtop or even instrument endorsers.
I can not find one review of his archtops on Google or Harmony Central for that matter. Maybe 15-20k is not a lot of money in your world, But to me as an actual
working musician for over 30 years it sure is to me! My suggestion to you is enjoy your guitar and be happy/w your purchase! As for me I'm still looking.

Please we have already covered that earlier in the thread. If you like I could go through post by post in this thread to show the position you have taken. It is crystal clear. I am calling you out on it as you started this thread AFTER you PM'd me and said you could not afford a Marchione archtop and that you would have to sell your house in order to buy one.

My suggestion to you is just be straight about it. This is quoted from the My Campellone thread you just posted in:

Originally Posted by Bluedawg

I've been lusting after a Campellone for some time.

His new 15" guitar may be just what I need.

Originally Posted by jads57

Me 22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 22222222222!

Enjoy your Campellone.

Joshua

[jads57]

I guess I'd be none to happy about someone questioning guitars that I were selling if I was a dealer as well. Since it might cut into my livelyhood as well. And I do indeed apologize to you if you feel as though I have hurt any perspective Marchione guitar buyers by initiating this thread. I still feel though that anybody who asks premium prices for their products should be able to show why their perspective customers why their products are worth so much $
And if that includes bragging rights, so be it!

[tejastubes]

Originally Posted by jads57

I guess I'd be none to happy about someone questioning guitars that I were selling if I was a dealer as well. Since it might cut into my livelyhood as well. And I do indeed apologize to you if you feel as though I have hurt any perspective Marchione guitar buyers by initiating this thread. I still feel though that anybody who asks premium prices for their products should be able to show why their perspective customers why their products are worth so much $
And if that includes bragging rights, so be it!

No this does not "cut into my livelyhood" whatsoever, nor does it hurt any prospective Marchione guitar buyers. Its just the position you have taken and the tone which was consistent through most of your posts.

Again, you were encouraged earlier in the thread to call Stephen Marchione directly to have your questions answered. I think if you will take the time to call him you may learn some facts about high quality guitars which he can articulate much better than I.

Joshua

[Scott Peterson]

Originally Posted by jads57

Wow, I'm not even sure how to answer accusations you are accusing me of. It seems as though you are on a personal crusade to discredit my questions.
Yes I've owned some very valuable gear in todays economy. Is it actually worth the $$ as a musical tool. The simple answer is no! That goes for my past Dumbles, 50's Les Pauls, Strats & teles. If you are measuring in status and bragging rights they probably are. But as actual usable musical instruments
they don't even come close to the asking price.
So when someone asks a lot of money for their product, I begin to ? why is it worth that amount. If it actually turns out to be worth it, great I want to know.
And if it turns out to be just simple profiteering I would also like to know.
But just because you have the $$$ invested in one of Mr Marchiones guitars does not qualify you as an unbiased expert. And again all of those credentials on his website are not neccessarily archtop or even instrument endorsers.
I can not find one review of his archtops on Google or Harmony Central for that matter. Maybe 15-20k is not a lot of money in your world, But to me as an actual
working musician for over 30 years it sure is to me! My suggestion to you is enjoy your guitar and be happy/w your purchase! As for me I'm still looking.

Wouldn't it be a bit more prudent and mature to actually play the guitar in person and make your own judgment rather than using a forum to pursue an agenda against something you've never tried?

[Jazz2Punk]

Originally Posted by Scott Peterson

Wouldn't it be a bit more prudent and mature to actually play the guitar in person and make your own judgment rather than using a forum to pursue an agenda against something you've never tried?

[jads57]

Scott Peterson I thought the point of these forums was discuss guitars good as well as bad points. The fact that a dealer states he has a superior guitar than others for sale in these very threads leads me to ask a valid question about the cost and worth of the guitar. Unfortunately as you read through all these posts Tejas Tubes has taken it as a personal attack on him and the guitars he represents. As you can see in my above post, I have apologized for any sale to any perspective buyers he may have. But to not be ask their opinions of these guitars in question seems to be in contradiction of what these forums are for.
Please take the time to read the entire posts and tell me where it is that I have disparraged these guitars. I would just like to know who else feels that these instruments are worth 10k more than say another fine builder such as Mark Campellone, Brad Nickerson or Ted Megas archtops.

[Jazz2Punk]

[Scott Auld]

If you say perspective one more time I might scream.

It's prospective.

Oh, and the rest of your thread? It's spelled T-R-O-L-L-I-N-G