Budda SD18 headroom, tone...?

[vmann]

Originally Posted by JimEff

I'm doing the same thing (with the SD18) and nervous about it. I've got the 30 day return to MF if I don't like it but I don't like doing things that way. Buying an amp based on web reviews can be downright dumb, unless of course you end up loving the amp, ha ha. Yes, the majority loves this amp but it is the minority that I'm worried about

Ah heck, I wouldn't be nervous about it unless its a money/inconvenience issue. You could quickly flip it. At least you'll know if Buddas, or at least the SD18, works for ya. The amp is superbly built and the effects loop worked wonderfully for me. There is lots to love about Buddas.

I know what you mean buying gear off web reviews or user reviews. But I was already prepared for the dark tones before I received it, without trying one out. I remember the guy that sold it to me saying if you had any Fenders near the Budda the contrast in tones was too much and he couldn't get past darkness. So despite his warning I still went ahead and gave it a shot thinking hey, everybody hears things differently.

Really hope it works for ya Jeff. Too many people swear by them. Good luck.

Jim

[JimEff]

thanks for the encouragement. Now if I can just get the accounting people at MF to get off their duffs and approve my CC so they can ship the dang thing. Supposedly they're 72 hours behind with their CC verification process because of Prez Day. I thought all this CC verification stuff was automated?? Meanwhile I sit GASSING....

I'll post my thoughts when I get the SD18...

[Andre357]

Originally Posted by DigitalHater

Back when I worked there, I know Jeff's shop guitar was a nothing special strat w/ Texas Specials, or Fender 50's, some kind of good Fender pups, with no tone knobs, w/ phase switch & n/b switch: a bright guitar. When he got happy with something, he'd bust out his old baby-blue PRS to hear the other end of the spectrum. I know I am wildly biased here, but I thought they always sounded great, just different flavors of great.

Oh, I hear ya. I owned a brazillian rosewood necked PRS 513 for a while that had a lot of low end and it sounded brilliant through my buddas.

Just the guitar was so expensive I was apprehensive gigging with it....so i sold it at a profit

[StompBoxBlues]

Originally Posted by vmann

Hey, congrats on the Budda.

It didn't work out for me but there is so much love around here for the SD18 that I'm definitely in the minority. Matter of fact it was after reading the reviews here and elsewhere that prompted me to get one.



Well, even though I bought mine after the Budda I guess its the keeper by default. I haven't had the 5:25 long enough but just by virtue of the superior clean and overall brightness of all channels and modes(of course it helps that the tone controls are super tweakable) it would be the keeper for me. I like this little Mesa a lot. It's growing on me.



Compared to a few amps including Fenders and also a few other el84's. This amp is dark. But only on the drive channel. It doesn't matter what amp you compare it to it is still inherently dark.

The fact you find it not dark at all is a bit puzzling but I wanted to make the amp work for me and tried a few things to brighten it up. I liked it's simplicity and more than serviceable clean channel and the drive channel could get really dynamic and chewy but it seemed every time I went to that channel it was like the proverbial wet-blanket was thrown over the speaker. It was that noticeable to me. But when I got into the zone of my playing I overcame the aural obstacles and just enjoyed what that channel had to offer. I admire guys like you that can hear things differently and I hope that Jimeff hears what you and others do.

Thanks,
Jim

Sorry to be pedantic, but "dark" means nothing without it's counterpart.
It's a description of contrast. That's what I meant. Which you mention when you write "Compared to a few amps including Fenders and also a few other el84's. This amp is dark.".

I guess I'm saying, you could just as easily call the Fenders "trebly", right?
I sure would. Fender OD's are not really my thing. I think they sound buzzy. Not trashing them, just saying that shifts my viewpoint a little...if I start out saying Fenders with OD channels are too bright and buzzy, then the sound from the Budda is not dark it is right.

I'm not twisting to fit my bias (anymore than anyone), becuase to ME, I've played through amps I would call "dark" and to me (maybe the terms mean different things to each of us) dark means less defined, harder (than normal) to hear the note, doesn't cut through the mix...NONE of those things would remotely describe the OD channel of the Budda.

On my SD-18 it cuts great, chimey, distinct, touch sensitive. Even with the knob in (for classic instead of modern) where it is definitly voiced "darker" (than the modern pos.) it still isn't fitting what I would call dark.
At all.

I can get, with a LP especially, that SLO-100 type of sound. Wouldn't ever call that dark.

So it seems like either my understanding of the description "dark" is different than yours, or else maybe we were trying with different other equipment...which might be the case. As I say, Fender sounds to me too trebly with what I have, but if someone has pedals and guitar that sound perfect with Fender, yeah...I could see it being dark on the Budda maybe.

[JimEff]

Finally got my SD18 combo. Have not gigged with it yet but played around with it and used it at band rehearsal last night.

I can see why people might describe it as "dark". Neck pickups do sound a bit dark even with the treble on the amp maxxed. I think the amp needs to be opened up though, to get around that tonal characteristic of the amp. Unfortunately for me, opening it up is usually not an option. Even at band rehearsal I never had the Master past 9:00. This freakin thing is LOUD, as others have already said. 18 watts my ass This amp has the power of most 30 watters I've played.

Using an attenuator is an option to the opening-up thing. But I've never had good luck with attenuators. It just seems like a band-aid (no pun intended) to the problem...

But so far so good. I'm not disappointed with the purchase at all. It's a great amp for blues, blues-rock, classic rock, maybe hard rock with a pedal. I was a bit surprised at the gain level. It's sort of marketed as a "high-gain" amp but at lower-to-moderate volumes I think I'm still going to need a dirt pedal for certain things. I don't play metal but some of Gary Moore's stuff (for example) approaches that threshold of hard-rock vs. metal. One of my (many) reasons for buying the amp was to eliminate dirt pedals but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. With the gain maxxed, I was a tiny bit disappointed that it turned kind of blurry but that seems to be pretty typical from my experience with gainy amps. Again, cranking the Master eliminates a lot of these "problems".

The channel balance thing does appear to be a potential problem. I found myself twirling the knobs much too often to get the volume balanced between the lead and rhythm channels...

I'm wondering about tube replacement but I think I'll just stick with the factory tubes for now. They seem to be a good match for the amp and I doubt spending $$ on NOS will improve the amp much. I'm sure there are NOS people who will disagree.

One small bitch about product quality. I noticed the cab has a small slice of wood missing (wormhole?) in the wood underneath the tolex (or whatever that material is). It's about the size of a half a nickel. Someone chose to use a crappy piece of wood during the cab construction and cover it over with the tolex so nobody could see it. For this kind of money they should be using quality wood underneath that tolex. I doubt it's worth the trouble of returning the unit but I give them not-so-great marks for doing it.

[Ricker]

Originally Posted by JimEff

Finally got my SD18 combo. Have not gigged with it yet but played around with it and used it at band rehearsal last night.

I can see why people might describe it as "dark". Neck pickups do sound a bit dark even with the treble on the amp maxxed. I think the amp needs to be opened up though, to get around that tonal characteristic of the amp. Unfortunately for me, opening it up is usually not an option. Even at band rehearsal I never had the Master past 9:00. This freakin thing is LOUD, as others have already said. 18 watts my ass This amp has the power of most 30 watters I've played.

Using an attenuator is an option to the opening-up thing. But I've never had good luck with attenuators. It just seems like a band-aid (no pun intended) to the problem...

But so far so good. I'm not disappointed with the purchase at all. It's a great amp for blues, blues-rock, classic rock, maybe hard rock with a pedal. I was a bit surprised at the gain level. It's sort of marketed as a "high-gain" amp but at lower-to-moderate volumes I think I'm still going to need a dirt pedal for certain things. I don't play metal but some of Gary Moore's stuff (for example) approaches that threshold of hard-rock vs. metal. One of my (many) reasons for buying the amp was to eliminate dirt pedals but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. With the gain maxxed, I was a tiny bit disappointed that it turned kind of blurry but that seems to be pretty typical from my experience with gainy amps. Again, cranking the Master eliminates a lot of these "problems".

The channel balance thing does appear to be a potential problem. I found myself twirling the knobs much too often to get the volume balanced between the lead and rhythm channels...

I'm wondering about tube replacement but I think I'll just stick with the factory tubes for now. They seem to be a good match for the amp and I doubt spending $$ on NOS will improve the amp much. I'm sure there are NOS people who will disagree.

One small bitch about product quality. I noticed the cab has a small slice of wood missing (wormhole?) in the wood underneath the tolex (or whatever that material is). It's about the size of a half a nickel. Someone chose to use a crappy piece of wood during the cab construction and cover it over with the tolex so nobody could see it. For this kind of money they should be using quality wood underneath that tolex. I doubt it's worth the trouble of returning the unit but I give them not-so-great marks for doing it.

As you said a few times .....opening up the master eliminates alot of the darkness.......and blurryness.

At lower volumes I can see why a gain pedal may be needed ...but turn the sucker up and I wouldn't need to pedalize that gain channel...........

You may also find that at volumes the channels balance better.........

People need to realize that this is certainly not a bedroom amp.......
This is a gigging amp designed to sound best in that environment.

I have a 100watt Bogner XTC........that is a Bedroom amp....
Sounds unbeliveable at low volumes.......
But the the Budda..uh uh....pretty ordinary when down low................

Try some celestion blues or golds with the sd18 and turn it up ......... wow.

Also the channel balance mod brings up the volume of the drive channel..........and the channel vol pot mod allows you to control how much louder you want it to be.......
These mods are very cool because not only do you get control over the gain volume.........BUT and this is a Big BUT...
This mod opens up, uncompresses and brightens the drive channel.

The sd18 can compress quite alot but with the mod especially the drive channel pot mod.......it works like a charm to make the channel that much better..............
Also as you increase the gain Volume using your new mod .......it lessons the effect of the mid pull so you can max the gain and then mid pull it for a very subtle widening of your sound....

wnderfull mod and it should come std on the amp.......
So many possibilities with it........
Doesn't change the stock sound one bit

Rick

[JimEff]

Originally Posted by Ricker

wnderfull mod and it should come std on the amp.......Rick

Is this just a single mod or are there multiple mods? How do I do such a mod? Can it be done by me or is it a factory thing? Thanks.

[Ricker]

Originally Posted by JimEff

Is this just a single mod or are there multiple mods? How do I do such a mod? Can it be done by me or is it a factory thing? Thanks.

just search fo budda mods.......there's plenty of info out there already
PM me if you don't come right

Rich

[StompBoxBlues]

Originally Posted by JimEff

Is this just a single mod or are there multiple mods? How do I do such a mod? Can it be done by me or is it a factory thing? Thanks.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/sho....php?p=7801692

All the info you'd need. It can be done with a pot, but I did it with a single resistor. It's all there. I think the mod changed it in an even better way with the tone and sound.

Sounds like you aren't getting what I am out of mine. You got a series II right? You mean you think it is dark even with the knobs pulled out (on both gain channel and clean?).

Personally, I wouldn't "max" the gain at all, I find that past 10:00 or so, it gets almost too much, but maybe we are using it different. The SD-18 and 45 made it so I took all OD's off my pedalboard. I can get Hendrixy, Santana, Govt mule, Allman, and much more (the only dirt I now use is a fuzz).... what kind of sound are you going for?

I tend to have the master not opened up, and the gain around 10:00 or less (and get Govt Mule type OD, with a LP) and clean up a little higher now. The EQ I find really easy to work with. When I play the LP I tend to have both knobs pulled out (modern, and brite for OD and clean respectively) often end up with bass around 11:00, mid around 1:00, and treble around 3:00 or so.

Good luck!

[Ricker]

The controls on the SDs work a bit differently than normal eq controls.
When you add treble the bass and mids seem to diminish aswell ....
Thay are actually very interactive and don't just boost or cut the particular frequency

R

[StompBoxBlues]

Originally Posted by Ricker

The controls on the SDs work a bit differently than normal eq controls.
When you add treble the bass and mids seem to diminish aswell ....
Thay are actually very interactive and don't just boost or cut the particular frequency

R

To me, the thing about the Budda's EQ, it isn't drastic, nor does it need the "safecrackers fingers" (sandpaper fingertips, barely touch it to make totally different sound) approach at all. I mean, I find that you can move things around easily without making a huge difference in the sound.
Of course, if you go drastic it will make a diff. but if you start with all at 12:00 and then move them a little, you change nuance with the tone, but not drastic.

Some amps I've had were TOO fine a line between enough and too much. I find the EQ on Budda perfect, set it up how I like it and maybe after a few songs, tweak the treble, bass slightly, etc. and get that little extra, but it is always right near great to my ears.

[JimEff]

Originally Posted by StompBoxBlues

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/sho....php?p=7801692

All the info you'd need. It can be done with a pot, but I did it with a single resistor. It's all there. I think the mod changed it in an even better way with the tone and sound.

Sounds like you aren't getting what I am out of mine. You got a series II right? You mean you think it is dark even with the knobs pulled out (on both gain channel and clean?).

Personally, I wouldn't "max" the gain at all, I find that past 10:00 or so, it gets almost too much, but maybe we are using it different. The SD-18 and 45 made it so I took all OD's off my pedalboard. I can get Hendrixy, Santana, Govt mule, Allman, and much more (the only dirt I now use is a fuzz).... what kind of sound are you going for?

I tend to have the master not opened up, and the gain around 10:00 or less (and get Govt Mule type OD, with a LP) and clean up a little higher now. The EQ I find really easy to work with. When I play the LP I tend to have both knobs pulled out (modern, and brite for OD and clean respectively) often end up with bass around 11:00, mid around 1:00, and treble around 3:00 or so.

Good luck!

Thanks for the info.

When I say "opened up" regarding the Master, I don't mean maxxed. But I'm talking at least noon...

To my ears, the Modern and Bright switches don't seem to make a ton of difference. But keep in mind this is a brand new amp and I haven't had much time to mess with it. I did notice that the darkness seems to dissipate the more I crank the Master. When I say "dark" I don't mean overly dark but I definitely would not consider this to be a bright amp by any stretch.

Most of my tones are achievable with the gain at noon or less. But some of the Gary Moore stuff we play requires over-the-top Marshall madness and I feel I need a dirt pedal to achieve that specific tone. But again, I'm still experimenting...

I'm not convinced yet that I need the mod. If it improves the gain channel tone even more then I'll probably do it but the channel balance doesn't seem to be bad enough to start tearing into the amp. I hate to bastardize a brand new amp. Now that Peavey owns them, it might actually void the warranty. Btw, here is what Mike @ Budda has to say about the channel balance issue:

"It's weird about that problem. It's not in all of the amps. I have had to have some of the amps reworked. The problem was supposed to be fixed. If you have any problems with it shoot me an email. We will get worked out no problem and no charge"

[StompBoxBlues]

D'oh.... I hadn't even thought of, I played for a time my Strat (there I tend to not have the switch out) with the Budda, that did not sound dark at all to me, BUT...around that time I started playing more and more on my Les Paul, and without really thinking about it, found myself using the mid position (bridge and neck pickups) adjusting them between each other for fine tuning tone, and a number of times using the bridge pickup...

Since I haven't played the LP with so many other amps, I didn't think about this but it might be where my perception of it not being dark at all comes from . I just know with a LP even on the bridge, I am getting some pretty amazing sound for almost a year now.

Again, the Strat didn't seem dark, but of course the pickups are less output so I can "open the amp up" more with a strat...maybe that is it.

Just in case, folks ought to keep in mind, just because you say always used to use the neck pickup, some amps work well with other combinations.

I hear a considerable difference when the OD switch is in our out, and the same with the clean channel voicing switch.

On the mod. I don't know if you read the link all through, but the mod is totally reversible. Far from "bastardising" it is a mod that Budda has given out to those that wanted to do it, implying (if done correctly) it wouldn't void warranties. It is, as I point out, the simplest mod I've ever run across that involved soldering, and again...dead easy to remove again. At least when one uses the resistor. If you put in a pot, and mount it in there, not so reversible, but the 1M resistor worked like a charm with my SD-18.

[JimEff]

Originally Posted by Ricker

People need to realize that this is certainly not a bedroom amp.......
This is a gigging amp designed to sound best in that environment.

I have a 100watt Bogner XTC........that is a Bedroom amp....
Sounds unbeliveable at low volumes.......
But the the Budda..uh uh....pretty ordinary when down low................

Ditto on this. I'm still within the return period on my new SD18 and I'm on the fence about keeping it for that reason. IMO you can't get any super-great tones from it unless it's at gig volumes. It's definitely not for the bedroom (not that I bought it for that) and I can barely get it to sing at band rehearsal because we play at low/moderate volumes at rehearsal. I gigged with it last weekend. Small/medium club and I couldn't get the Master past 10:00 so I stuck with pedals on the clean channel for my OD. Again, I bought this amp primarily for the OD channel. 18 watts. I guess I need to go with a 5 watt amp

Comparing it to a Ferrari is a good analogy - it's just ordinary, even sluggish, unless/until it's opened up. I can get better lower-volume OD tones with a pedal on the clean channel than I can from the OD channel by itself.

Does anyone use an attenuator with their Budda and how does it do?

[StompBoxBlues]

Originally Posted by JimEff

Ditto on this. I'm still within the return period on my new SD18 and I'm on the fence about keeping it for that reason. IMO you can't get any super-great tones from it unless it's at gig volumes. It's definitely not for the bedroom (not that I bought it for that) and I can barely get it to sing at band rehearsal because we play at low/moderate volumes at rehearsal. I gigged with it last weekend. Small/medium club and I couldn't get the Master past 10:00 so I stuck with pedals on the clean channel for my OD. Again, I bought this amp primarily for the OD channel. 18 watts. I guess I need to go with a 5 watt amp

Comparing it to a Ferrari is a good analogy - it's just ordinary, even sluggish, unless/until it's opened up. I can get better lower-volume OD tones with a pedal on the clean channel than I can from the OD channel by itself.

Does anyone use an attenuator with their Budda and how does it do?

If it is what you are experiencing, than that is what you experience.
I would just say, I do fine with mine at low volumes at home, subdued band volumes, and loud band volumes. I think the thing sings in all cases.

Mine works great without any special tricks, but someone here mentioned using a boost in the effects loop for "more headroom" but something else in there or a pedal to slam the input might help for you at lower volumes?

Mostly I play with the master down, and the others more or less normal, but get also nice things out of the opposite...