Marshall JCM 900 Hi Gain Dual Reverb 4500 - opinions?

[DemoColorScheme]

I couldn't find it via the search-function but I'd love to hear some opinions!
I'm planning on selling my Koch Powertone 1 head, which is a fine high end and boutique amp - don't get me wrong, and have always been looking at a Marshall JCM 900 Hi Gain Dual Reverb 4500 - yes, the 50watter.

The reason I'm selling the Koch is because I really just don't like its gain sound. It's just too sharp and brittle for my taste and the way it sustains isn't really strong and smooth enough for me. I've tried EQing it with my modded GE-7 in the loop and am even using a BBE Sonic Maximizer 482i (rack) but have never been able to be satisfied with this amp. It's just the character of the gain that doesn't suit me.

To make it clear: I play in a post-metal/sludge band and I need good cleans next to nice, smooth and tight gain. Hence the reason why I DEFINITELY need a 2 channel amp. The Koch has some nice headroom but I'm wondering if the JCM 900 Dual Reverb 4500 can do this as well?

I could easily afford the Marshall when selling the Koch but I'm wondering if there are any kinks? FX loops problems, for instance? I've encountered several amps with FX loop issues and since I definitely need a Serial FX loop for my tc electronic G-System, which is the heart of my rig, this is a must.

So, this is what I need:
- Dedicated Clean Channel: needs to stay clean, no break-up.
We don't play THAT loudly so it's possible that a clean sound isn't going to be an issue.
- Serial FX Loop (must work properly!)
- Hi Gain that can take on low-end doomy metal (we're tuned to B standard)
- Sounding good/decent on lower volumes
Another problem I had with the Koch, it's 120 watts and there's no place I can really crank it since we don't play stadiums. I understand that cranking an amp really brings it out, hence why I choose the 50watt JCM 900 instead of the 100.

These are the specs of the JCM 900 Hi Gain Dual Reverb 4500:


And here are three clips of the amp in action that kinda show what I want:
- Heavy Gain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VnPzsNqPME
(from 1:08 and up)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lELksi1j_lE
(love that decay [or lack of ] and sustain!)
- Clean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hncEjRD9bw

I was opting for the 2500 SL-X but read that it has trouble with staying clean. So I let that one go.

My biggest concern with the JCM 900 is that it has 1 shared EQ section. My clean sounds are always very Fender-y and sharp whereas my gain needs to be warm etc. The only way I can achieve this is to use the additional EQ on each preset on the G-System to fine-tune the clean sounds and gain sounds. (they fixed it so it doesn't sweep anymore when switching presets)

So, any thoughts? Keep in mind: I can alter the amp with the modded GE-7, BBE Sonic Maxmizer 482i, the G-System EQ per preset and I can push it with my Catalinbread Dirty Little Secret - so I'm not just a slave to the amp itself, I can alter it slightly, where needed.

[M@tt C]

No experience with the JCM 900, but the DSL or TSL 50 watters may be worth looking into. I borrowed a buddy's DSL 50 for a while, and really liked the flexibility it offered. Two channels, a LOT of gain, great serial FX loop, and it had that classic Marshall sound even a lower volumes. GREAT bang for the buck in the used market.

[DemoColorScheme]

Weren't the TSL and the DSL solid state?

[rockon1]

Originally Posted by DemoColorScheme

Weren't the TSL and the DSL solid state?

No.

[DemoColorScheme]

Ah, correct. I was mistaking them for other models.
Does anyone have any experience with them versus the JCM 900 Dual Reverb?

[mvd18969]

The DSL and TSL get a lot of hype; personally I'm not a big fan of either. I think a used 5150 would fill the bill with what you're looking for tone-wise.

[DemoColorScheme]

Originally Posted by mvd18969

The DSL and TSL get a lot of hype; personally I'm not a big fan of either. I think a used 5150 would fill the bill with what you're looking for tone-wise.

Hm, could be but never really thought of going ENGL, to be honest.
Also checked out the DSL and TSL and both have a Parallel FX loop (at least the TSL, I can't find it on the DSL) which means it's a no-go in case of matching it up with my G-System.

[severinsteel]

Actually, the 5150 is by Peavey, not ENGL. In order to get that nice high gain tone, you will ruin your clean because of the amps gain structure. I have had experience with TSL's and 900's and the TSL was by far the most versatile. It had great high gain and a great clean. But, in my opinion its FX loops weren't great. With the 900, you will always have to compromise your clean because of the shared EQ. Are you looking for a British or American character to your high gain sound? What about $$$?

[DemoColorScheme]

Originally Posted by severinsteel

Actually, the 5150 is by Peavey, not ENGL.

Ha, I knew that. It's weird that I mixed it up. Never been really interested in Peavey though.

Originally Posted by severinsteel

In order to get that nice high gain tone, you will ruin your clean because of the amps gain structure. I have had experience with TSL's and 900's and the TSL was by far the most versatile. It had great high gain and a great clean. But, in my opinion its FX loops weren't great. With the 900, you will always have to compromise your clean because of the shared EQ. Are you looking for a British or American character to your high gain sound? What about $$$?

I'm looking for an American character, to be honest. My budget right now is €450,- without me selling the Koch Powertone. If added, it would be around €1150,- The reason I'm not selling my Powertone yet is because it still is a part of my live rig. I can't 'just' get rid of it and end up not liking the Marshall and be totally without a live rig, especially with the important dates coming up.

I was at the understanding that the JCM 900 Hi Gain Dual Reverb's had two seperate channels but just shared one EQ section, BUT had separate gain and volume controls?
- http://www.marshallamps.com/product....pageType=SEEIT
As shown here. I've seen demo's where people have clean sounds and use the high gain next to it. So, the shared EQ would be the only problem? I can adjust that via the G-System's EQ (per preset), the modded GE-7 and the Sonic Maximizer 482i? To my knowledge, this would give me plenty to work with? I could set a clean channel and use some compression (which I love), use the Catalinbread DLS for OD tones on my clean channel (which it was made for) and use the Lead Channel for High Gain tones. I could EQ each additional preset; be it clean, OD or High Gain to my specific needs. Right?

A friend of mine told me the DSL's and TSL's were really dull and that the JCM 900 really has its own thing going on.
Also: as stated before: Serial GOOD FX loop is a MUST.

Oh, and to add on: we never really play that loud. Well, we play loudly but with a LOT of amps I've never really had to push the volume past 9 O' clock. My Koch Powertone's clean channel can't get past '2' (not 2 O' clock - more like 7 O' clock) or else it'll just be too loud. So it's hard to believe the clean channel can't stay clean, even on low(er) volumes.

The Dual Reverb range was designed for versatility with two independently controlled footswitchable
channels, each voiced totally differently.

[M@tt C]

Originally Posted by DemoColorScheme

Hm, could be but never really thought of going ENGL, to be honest.
Also checked out the DSL and TSL and both have a Parallel FX loop (at least the TSL, I can't find it on the DSL) which means it's a no-go in case of matching it up with my G-System.

TSL has a parallel loop, the DSL is serial.

[mightypudge]

JCM900 is a good amp. Probably not for what you need. The FX loop on the 900 is not very good, period. I know this from experience. Major tone suck. Secondly, the gain on tap is decent but I would not consider it for metal. And low end is not the 900's strong suit.

There are better options in the low price market. Do some research and you may find a bargain.

[DemoColorScheme]

Originally Posted by MattC

TSL has a parallel loop, the DSL is serial.

I see. But how does the DSL compare to the JCM 900, then? Sound wise?

[DemoColorScheme]

Originally Posted by mightypudge

JCM900 is a good amp. Probably not for what you need. The FX loop on the 900 is not very good, period. I know this from experience. Major tone suck. Secondly, the gain on tap is decent but I would not consider it for metal. And low end is not the 900's strong suit.

There are better options in the low price market. Do some research and you may find a bargain.

Well, the tone suck of the FX loop might be fixable by my tech guy. Also, most of the effects that I use, I use in front of the amp (DMM + BOSS RV-5), the rest is additional ambience from the G-System, nothing too over the top.

And I know a lot of people consider A LOT of gain to be metal but being in 3-guitarist band you'll find out that less gain = more definition. So, I bet the JCM 900 + my DLS would be PLENTY of gain?

I've heard about the low end thing and the JCM 900's but I've also heard that it works wonders with an EQ and Sonic Maximizer. Also, I'm tuned to B, I don't need a lot of additional bass to get that low end. If you pump it up to much, it just becomes booming and whoofy without any definition.

What would you advise in terms of another amp? It's nice saying there are other options but without any recommendations it's not really helping per se.
The thing is, I just really like that Marshally mid-frequency character that the JCM 900 provides in the gain range.

[severinsteel]

In my experience, low end from a EQ pedal or a Sonic Maximizer never works as well as low end built into the amp. Of the amps you listed, the TSL is probably your winner. Built in deep switch, high gain, mid gain, and clean channels, series and parallel loops.

[DemoColorScheme]

Originally Posted by severinsteel

In my experience, low end from a EQ pedal or a Sonic Maximizer never works as well as low end built into the amp. Of the amps you listed, the TSL is probably your winner. Built in deep switch, high gain, mid gain, and clean channels, series and parallel loops.

Hm, okay. You sure about the TSL fx loops? I just checked that amp out and just noticed 1 FX loop, which was parallel?