Eric Johnson and Joe Bonamassa's fast string-crossing techniques

[Zero G]

Does anyone here have a handle on their picking techniques used to cross strings? I don't want to get into the bounce technique or circle picking bending the thumb joint, just about how they cross strings for those super fast 2 note per string pentatonic runs (mostly descending). Watching both guys pick those runs, it looks like they are mixing economy picking and alternate picking to get across the strings efficiently, and they use a lot of triplets mixed in with 5 note groupings. This is just based on my own superficial analysis. Nothing too in depth or something I've studied for years or anything. I've tried to pick some of these runs using strict economy picking, but the upstroke to a lower string is a lot more difficult than the downstroke to a higher string. A few days ago I tried to pick a Joe/Eric inspired quintuplet run like this, using strict alternate picking:

D--U-D--U--D-----U--D-U--D-U------D-U-D--U--D---U--D-U--D--U

--6--3-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------6--3---------6--3----------------------------------------------------------
--------------5-------------5--3---------5--3---------------------------------------
-----------------------------------5------------5--3-------5--3---------------------
-------------------------------------------------------5----------5--3--------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------6-----------

It seemed a bit cumbersome, so I economy/slip picked from the last note of the phrase to the beginning note of the next phrase like this:

D--U-D--U-*D---*D--U--D-U-*D---*D--U etc...

--6--3-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------6--3---------6--3----------------------------------------------------------
--------------5-------------5--3---------5--3---------------------------------------
-----------------------------------5------------5--3-------5--3---------------------
-------------------------------------------------------5----------5--3--------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------6-----------

That one thing made a huge improvement in my ability to ply the phrase easier and thus faster. Is this how Eric and Joe do it, or do they strictly economy pick those fast runs, or do they mix up alternate picking and economy picking, mix alternate and rake picking only,(etc)? I can pick kinda fast as it is, but I really want to blaze across the strings like they do. I know how to build speed with a metronome etc, but I'm just looking for insight as to how they cross strings when they pick fast.

[gergbeat]

Wow, excellent question. (In the sense that it's something I've been wondering for a long time.). I find it odd that EJ has claimed not be a very fast picker (or said something like, plenty of guys pick faster than me), yet he zips through these 2 note per string patterns when most shred guys prefer 3 notes. (not just for economy picking purposes, crossing strings is the slowest part of the process so I think they tend to maximize single string picking as much as possible) Heck, most of Paul Gilbert's pentatonic shred licks involve hammers and pulls.

I've been slowing down EJ's Total Electric Guitar and trying to figure out if he is actually picking every note, and I don't think he is. I think he probably could if wanted, but I think he skips notes, he just has the ability to make a picked note, or hammer/pull off sound identical.

Bonammasa is someone i've just started getting into, and it looks like he DOES pick every note. (from my very limited example pool).

Very interested to hear what other people think...

[kludge]

Get jzucker's "Sheets of Sound" book and study the pentatonics section, especially his fingerings for sweeping pentatonics using three notes per string. He specifically name-drops Eric Johnson in the pentatonics section. I've been studying those myself, although I suspect it'll be months before I'm comfortable enough with the new fingerings to use them fluidly.

The sweep-picking (economy picking is probably a better term) exercises for regular seven-note scales really improved my playing. My hand came unglued from the "strong beat down weak beat up" picking mechanics and my playing became more rhythmically free. Great book!

[cugel]

i beleive its a combination of alternate picking and ecomony picking
its essential to the ej sound IMHO

[gergbeat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6ZCgcsTiCM

It looks like alternate economy combo here for Joe. Check out at .59 when he plays the lick slow.

[Zero G]

Originally Posted by kludge

Get jzucker's "Sheets of Sound" book and study the pentatonics section, especially his fingerings for sweeping pentatonics using three notes per string. He specifically name-drops Eric Johnson in the pentatonics section.

Yeah I've heard it's a great book, but I've never seen him pick like Eric Johnson in any of his YT videos.

[Gigbag]

I don't know how EJ would pick your example, but when I want maximum speed I just pick the first note of each string and pull off to the second string on each string (if there is one). Ascending, I pick the first note and hammer to the second of each string. I still use alternate or ecomony picking for the notes I do pick. Is EJ doing that at times? I make a mini-barre across the two lowest strings with my first finger, and slide that along the string sets of the pentatonic phrase. In general, I combine alternate or economy picking for whatever works best. In this case, alternate picking.

[buddastrat]

I had a thread maybe a year or two ago on EJ's picking approach. I love how EJ does the pentatonics with such grace. A lot of it is his right hand control, and how he picks depends on what he's going to. He thinks ahead to set up lines. He does mix techniques as you say. But most don't think of it. The downstroke for most folks feels more natural. But I have seen him do runs where he will start with an upstroke to setup for a certain picking pattern that he has practiced.

It's a bit like gypsy picking in that he wants to emphasize with a down, BUT not always. There are MANY exceptions, whereas gypsy style stays very true to that. A funny thing is, I show lots of this stuff to students and everyone usuallly picks it that way, naturally.

One thing besides not sticking to alt. picking is to end those pentatonic sequences on an octave higher, like do that run quickly and evenly and end on a G on the D string. EJ does it about every solo! and JB copied him to the bone.

[buddastrat]

Originally Posted by Gigbag

I don't know how EJ would pick your example, but when I want maximum speed I just pick the first note of each string and pull off to the second string on each string (if there is one). Ascending, I pick the first note and hammer to the second of each string. I still use alternate or ecomony picking for the notes I do pick. Is EJ doing that at times? I make a mini-barre across the two lowest strings with my first finger, and slide that along the string sets of the pentatonic phrase. In general, I combine alternate or economy picking for whatever works best. In this case, alternate picking.

For me, picking it would be as fast as pull offs. Didn't used to. Until I learned that quick twitch for those pentatonic type things. We all do it differently and that's good so everyone sounds differently.

[Bo Faulkner]

This thread is why TGP is awesome. Before I read it I never realized that the 2 note per string thing was how they did it.. Now I can pretty much nail that bonnamassa lick!

[Gigbag]

Originally Posted by buddastrat

For me, picking it would be as fast as pull offs. Didn't used to. Until I learned that quick twitch for those pentatonic type things. We all do it differently and that's good so everyone sounds differently.

I grabbed a guitar after my last post, and I noticed that without thinking about it I used alternate picking and economy picking on the last note of each phrase into the first of the next phrase. I can pick about as fast that way or with pull-offs.

[phillyred79]

So I watched this youtube video and recorded the audio and slowed it down and he actually plays the lick differently from when he plays it slow and full speed.. I know we are analyzing his technique in this thread, but I found it interesting because the full speed lick can be approached differently with some pull-offs and thats what I am hearing...

Originally Posted by gergbeat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6ZCgcsTiCM

It looks like alternate economy combo here for Joe. Check out at .59 when he plays the lick slow.

[Zero G]

Originally Posted by phillyred79

So I watched this youtube video and recorded the audio and slowed it down and he actually plays the lick differently from when he plays it slow and full speed.. I know we are analyzing his technique in this thread, but I found it interesting because the full speed lick can be approached differently with some pull-offs and thats what I am hearing...

After analyzing it a bit myself, I noticed this as well. Starts the slow lick with a downstroke and he also does three consecutive downstrokes on the b and high e strings, which would be quite difficult at high speed. In the faster version that follows, he seems to begin with an upstroke, and it looks like he changes a few notes as well. Joe's not such a great teacher...

[NG7]

Check out these Shawn Lane lessons. They'll get you playing similar stuff. You have to be a freak though.

[JZG]

Good topic...can't wait to look into this when I get home tonight.

My guess is that if you asked EJ or JB about their picking technique, neither would really be able to tell you or express how they do something. I'm sure it's an "I just do it" or "I just do what feels natural" response.