K&K Sound Pure Western Question

[theroan]

Hey all,

So in the near future I'm going to buy a Taylor DN series guitar. Unless you're willing to spend an extra $300, it does not come with electronics. And the reviews on the Expression System are mixed to say the least.

So I've done my research and it appears that the K&K Sound Pure Western pick up is the one to go with. Inexpensive, sounds great and can be installed at home.

My question, is this pickup sufficient on it's own (passive) or is the phase cancellation/volume knob add on recommended for feedback? Or would a sound hole cover do the trick in that regard.

Thanks in advance.

[kludge]

I'd consider the phase/volume knob for a new installation. My experience is the K&K pickups are a middle ground between undersaddles and mics in terms of realism vs feedback. They're not as feedback-resistant as an undersaddle, but they sound far better. And they don't sound as good as mics, but they don't feed back as much and are easier to handle.

Big fan of K&K here. Those, and the Baggs M1 Active magnetic, put undersaddles to shame imho.

[theroan]

Any way to combine the two?

[coldfingaz]

What are you using this guitar for? If it's louder band situations, I'd go with the M1 and use something like a Para D/I for settings (unless you need something on board). If you're not playing in louder situations, try a K&K PWM by itself before you consider adding anything else to the mix. It's as nice & natural of a reproduction of your guitar's sound (which I assume you would prefer to preserve) as pickups come. It's also inexpensive, non-invasive & doesn't even need batteries. While I like the sound of the M1, it is magnetic... and therefore it colors your tone a bit. Not necessarily a bad thing or in a bad way at all, but... YMMV.

[theroan]

The loudest would be a church setting, so I don't know what that means for the Pure

[coldfingaz]

Originally Posted by theroan

The loudest would be a church setting, so I don't know what that means for the Pure

I've personally never had a problem with a PWM, but I have heard of feedback issues when guys have used them in acoustics while competing with electrics, loud drummers, etc. I doubt you would have a problem in a church setting, but others may have additional comments.

If you're concerned at all, the M1 is a great option as well... I'm just personally partial to the PWM because it's always served me so well for what I need to do (mostly solo acoustic &/or duo stuff with a percussionist).

[Hard2Hear]

I've installed Pure Westerns (actually always the Ultra Pure, I like the controls at hand) in 3 of my guitars and have used them all in a church setting with full and loud bands. Always gotten great compliments on the tone, especially in my Taylor 814c, and never had a feedback problem myself.

[RustyAxe]

Originally Posted by theroan

My question, is this pickup sufficient on it's own (passive) or is the phase cancellation/volume knob add on recommended for feedback? Or would a sound hole cover do the trick in that regard.
Thanks in advance.

My experience with K&K PWM (got two, one in a D-18GE and the other in a Guild 12-string) is that I couldn't get a decent tone until I bought a K&K Pure preamp. The issue is the impedance mis-match between the K&K and most other preamps. Even my Baggs Para-DI didn't work. I was completely surprised, because so many players seem to think they are fine direct to a PA. I got the non-XLR model, and it works just fine. They also make the XLR model, with phase, and ground lift, and XLR DI out.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by RustyAxe

My experience with K&K PWM (got two, one in a D-18GE and the other in a Guild 12-string) is that I couldn't get a decent tone until I bought a K&K Pure preamp... Even my Baggs Para-DI didn't work...

was the sound too bassy? apparently the PWM likes a lower impedance than most piezo pickups, specifically because the increased mismatch rolls off excess low end.

[edward]

I know you're considering the K&K, but I would not write off the ES. Lots of "mixed reviews" from forums, to be sure. But there are far many more who like how the ES works and sounds in a live situation, far more than those on a given forum who express their dislike for it.

FWIW, I have used my ES-equipped Taylors avidly on church situations, and some pretty loud church band situations. The ES provides you the best combination of good acoustic guitar tone and serious feedback rejection, not to mention zero noise, as in dead quiet. No, it is not perfect, but what system is? If you are recording, the ES is a poor choice. If you are a solo act, then you could get a more natural sound than an ES. But for live work, church band or much louder, the ES is difficult to beat. It just flat-out sounds good (yes, better than decent and genuinely good if eq'd properly), is very difficult to get to feedback, and offers a strong pristine signal, even a balanced signal to go straight to a board/PA. Not to mention the very discretely placed but incredibly useful controls right on the bout where you want them. It really is worth a listen, IMHO.

Edward

[NeuroLogic]

Why not use a soundhole cover? I use a wet/dry soundhole humidifier and mic feedback is no more.

[RustyAxe]

Originally Posted by walterw

was the sound too bassy? apparently the PWM likes a lower impedance than most piezo pickups, specifically because the increased mismatch rolls off excess low end.

It was bassy, and seem attenuated. The mismatch is the big issue, and a lesser one is that most PA's expect a 1/4" line level signal, not an instrument level. Yes, you can crank up the input gain on the PA, but that just raises the noise level, too. The cure was the Pure Preamp.

[RustyAxe]

Just an note to the OP ... you want the K&K Pure Western MINI, not the larger standard size. Check the K&K website.

[kendog]

I have the PW and a Mills Mic in my Collings SJ. I run them both thru the K&K dual pre and it sounds wonderful. Many times I do just use the PW by itself with one side of the pre and get great results. I usually run it into a San Greal acoustic amp which sounds great.

[theroan]

Yes the regular is for 12 strings. Definitely considering the external pre.