Scumback H75-LHDC or M75-LHDC (or) V30 ?

[Jim S]

Why H, Mike?

[1poorplayer]

Yeah , I'm REALLY interested to hear from someone who knows these two model Scumbacks well. M75 and H75 versions.

I'm willing to take the plunge and order a pair of unloaded 1x12 Bogner cabs. I need to hear from some more experienced users of these model speakers.

Please.

[Ken]

Originally Posted by 1poorplayer

Early breakup/fizz ISNT something I desire either. ( I need grammer check AND spellcheck ) ... Sorry

The problem I had with the standard EL34 Shiva was the fizzy sound on the lead channel. I don't play all that loud to smooth it out and it got to be a problem for me and others I know too.

Are you saying this is what your up against with the Shiva 20th Anni?

You might try asking about speakers for your 20th Anni on this forum:
http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=59

[1poorplayer]

Originally Posted by Ken

The problem I had with the standard EL34 Shiva was the fizzy sound on the lead channel. I don't play all that loud to smooth it out and it got to be a problem for me and others I know too.

Are you saying this is what your up against with the Shiva 20th Anni?

You might try asking about speakers for your 20th Anni on this forum:
http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=59

No. Not at all. The amp sounds great. Couldn't be happier with the amp.
Im saying my greenbacks are kind of hollow and fuzzy on top. My V30's are OK except for the spike in the "lower highs". I'm thinking of trying one or boh of the two models I listed.

[FiestaRed]

Aren't there a few V30 clones out there that claim not to have the mid spike? I'm thinking Eminence, Jensen Mod 70, WGS all have something like that.

[big mike]

Originally Posted by Jim S

Why H, Mike?

I like mixing to get the extended frequency range.

The db difference isn't noticable from 5 feet away, and the H in the mix adds the highs and lows the M's don't have. I nice full range balance.

[1poorplayer]

Originally Posted by FiestaRed

Aren't there a few V30 clones out there that claim not to have the mid spike? I'm thinking Eminence, Jensen Mod 70, WGS all have something like that.

I've got a Veteren 30. Yeah , their claim to fame is , it's a the V30 without things you don't like about it. Sure. Sounds worse than a V30.

[DougDoppler]

There's some great stuff on this thread - thanks guys! I don't know if Jim would agree , but he's become a friend over the past several months. He loaned me his '71 Marshall cabinet loaded with H and M speakers on an X axis, and it sounded GREAT...

I also wanted to comment on the FOH part of the equation. I think that most sound guys are hard of hearing, and as an end result put the 57 right on the center of the dust cap. I've found the focusing it on axis at the edge of the dust cap really does a great job of approximating the sound of standing to the side of the amp. BUT, I will add this. I stood next to this guy the other night who was standing next to his amp, which was pointing more 7k than I care to hear in a lifetime right at me. I've not wanted to kick a nice guy that badly for a long time. Kidding, kind of. I think this guy is not alone in his death beam tone. Early last year I stopped using what was my main amp because I could not dial out the frequency in the high end and keep the sustain I needed. The only way I found out was putting my head right in the line of fire that the audience gets and just said to myself, this isn't working. It may not be true for your gigs, but I finally went I'm kidding myself by thinking I can have the sound hitting the back of my leg and not actually put my head down where the audiences ears are. It was devastating, but since then my live sound has been much better for everyone involved...

I'll also say this. The V30 can be a GREAT speaker with the right amp, earpick with the wrong one. I've spent so much time lately swapping stuff around, that you could use the same head/cab and the voicing of the guitar alone can make or break the speaker. I've got an ESP George Lynch guitar on loan as well as a Fender Eric Johnson Strat. The Lynch guitar has very little high end and sounds KILLER through stuff that people would want to kill me for using the EJ strat on. I have a pair of V30s that I'm using with a Matchless Clubman right now, and they sound GREAT. For me it's about getting the right combination...

Speaking of which the Scumback M&H as I mentioned before do that really well - with the right guitar and amp...

Cheers ~ Doug

[Rod]

Jim is right on the $$ tone wise...Listen, then buy...You won't be dissapointed

[jamison162]

I would do the standard M or H 75's. IMO, the large dust caps aren't needed with these speakers. They are "vintage" voiced and do not have the brittle high end or ice pick that celestions do. The LDC is only going to warm it up and give you less highs and possibly less clarity. I think you would dig the standard cones just fine. I've had them all and my fave is the standard 25w M75.

[Rod]

Originally Posted by jamison162

I would do the standard M or H 75's. IMO, the large dust caps aren't needed with these speakers. They are "vintage" voiced and do not have the brittle high end or ice pick that celestions do. The LDC is only going to warm it up and give you less highs and possibly less clarity. I think you would dig the standard cones just fine. I've had them all and my fave is the standard 25w M75.

I was wondering about the LHDC thing myself....I use M55 HP's and they are just amazing sounding speakers....thanks for the insight...

[1poorplayer]

I listened to the samples on the site. I'm a bit disappointed with the lack of consistency of equipment used for the samples to compare each model speaker.

On YouTube , there is a speaker comparison done with a Riviera amp where someone plays the same exact riff through the same amp , with the same guitar , and a different speaker , in the same cab , each time. Excellent job.

From the samples I listened to , Jims suggestion of the H75-HLDC was
also my pick. I'm not sure what speaker I would pair it with if I were to.

I appreciate the patience Jim has shown with me while I gather opinions from guys on the forum and continue to ask questions.

[Scumback Speakers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9NISyViNBM

[1poorplayer]

Originally Posted by DougDoppler

There's some great stuff on this thread - thanks guys! I don't know if Jim would agree , but he's become a friend over the past several months. He loaned me his '71 Marshall cabinet loaded with H and M speakers on an X axis, and it sounded GREAT...

I also wanted to comment on the FOH part of the equation. I think that most sound guys are hard of hearing, and as an end result put the 57 right on the center of the dust cap. I've found the focusing it on axis at the edge of the dust cap really does a great job of approximating the sound of standing to the side of the amp. BUT, I will add this. I stood next to this guy the other night who was standing next to his amp, which was pointing more 7k than I care to hear in a lifetime right at me. I've not wanted to kick a nice guy that badly for a long time. Kidding, kind of. I think this guy is not alone in his death beam tone. Early last year I stopped using what was my main amp because I could not dial out the frequency in the high end and keep the sustain I needed. The only way I found out was putting my head right in the line of fire that the audience gets and just said to myself, this isn't working. It may not be true for your gigs, but I finally went I'm kidding myself by thinking I can have the sound hitting the back of my leg and not actually put my head down where the audiences ears are. It was devastating, but since then my live sound has been much better for everyone involved...

I'll also say this. The V30 can be a GREAT speaker with the right amp, earpick with the wrong one. I've spent so much time lately swapping stuff around, that you could use the same head/cab and the voicing of the guitar alone can make or break the speaker. I've got an ESP George Lynch guitar on loan as well as a Fender Eric Johnson Strat. The Lynch guitar has very little high end and sounds KILLER through stuff that people would want to kill me for using the EJ strat on. I have a pair of V30s that I'm using with a Matchless Clubman right now, and they sound GREAT. For me it's about getting the right combination...

Speaking of which the Scumback M&H as I mentioned before do that really well - with the right guitar and amp...

Cheers ~ Doug

Thanks for taking the time for the reply. I understand where you are coming from. Every element in the chain has an effect on what you hear.
For my gigs , I always do sound check while standing where the crowd will be.

During solos ; when it's most important to hear each note , I've found myself bent over in front of my 4x12 or asking the sound man to crank my guitar in the monitors to the point of feedback. I'd like a 1x12 cab for stage monitoring , along with my 4x12. So it's important that it sounds good for vibe , and will cut through as well.

Jim , your YouTube vid proves beyond a doubt that your M75 65 watt speakers sound great with a great amp behind them.

[gulliver]

My story…

I’ve had a number of speakers for my more aggressive humbucker rock tones, including V30, CL80, Eminence Legend GB12, Celestion greeny RI, Scummy M75 100 watter, and H75 LHDC 65 watter.

IMHO, the V30 has a more puffy powdery distortion sound as compared to the more vintage style speakers. The CL80 has that same vibe, but more bass and hides lead notes a little more, not as in-your-face peaky. I dumped the V30s for the CL80s and had them for about two years. I spent a lot of time with both of the above, but ended up really liking a Celestion greeny RI over the two. These speakers have a sound to themselves and can do high gain to dirty strat. Big problem, though, the 25 watt thing (for a 2x12). Went with the Legend GB12 for more power, great speaker, can get some great strat tones out of it as well, but the highs were a little too thin and glassy. It was also a little stiff, but I didn’t break it in a ton to be fair. The H75 LHDC 65 was the answer, similar EQ curve to the greeny RI in that it has similar out-front lead notes as the celestion greeny, but more full, more modern IMHO, tighter bass, way more crunchy. I strongly recommend these speakers, and it paired very well with the greeny RI in my 2x12. Still the power issue with the pair, so I got an M75 100 watter. Didn’t care for it in comparison … it had the same excellent vintage vibe, but very bassy and quite dark (keeping in mind it’s a 100 watter which will add to this). With the standard dust cap, the highs peak farther up top, somewhat hides the lead notes in it’s darkness, just the opposite of the H75 LHDC, and they didn’t pair well at all together. Note, I did really like the M75 with strat tones, but replaced it with a Weber Blues Dog Alnico (another story). So … ended up with two H75 LHDCs in this 2x12, which I still have.

I eventually want to try an M75 LHDC, as the H75 LHDCs are super aggressive and are maybe missing a warmth quality … sometimes a little fatiguing … but not a huge issue. I’m thinking an M+H mix might work, and know they are recommended by many.