Warmoth Vs. USA Custom Guitars

[Gary Ladd]

So what do you guys think?

Share your experiences, I shared my on this thread:

Seymour Duncan forum

There's also some interesting interaction going on between Gregg @ Warmoth and some former Warmoth employee (USCG guy?) that are discussing Mr. Warmoth using guitar bodies for frisbees in the shop! LOL

[dazco]

I had many bad experiences with warmoth as far as wood that just didn't sound good at all. I threw away a lot or money on thier necks especially. I'm not to thrilled with the build it yourself concept anymore due to the imposibility of knowing whether you just bought a dog or not. But if i went that route again (which i wouldn't) i surely wouldn't go the warmoth route. i like the quality but i never got a piece that sounded better than average and most plain sucked tonally. Just my opinion, but thats what i experienced. never tried USCG, tho i wish i would have.

[Gary Ladd]

Originally posted by dazco
I had many bad experiences with warmoth as far as wood that just didn't sound good at all. I threw away a lot or money on thier necks especially. I'm not to thrilled with the build it yourself concept anymore due to the imposibility of knowing whether you just bought a dog or not. But if i went that route again (which i wouldn't) i surely wouldn't go the warmoth route. i like the quality but i never got a piece that sounded better than average and most plain sucked tonally. Just my opinion, but thats what i experienced. never tried USCG, tho i wish i would have.

Well, out of the two Warmoths I've received so far, one (an LPS) has excellent tone and resonates great, both have nice playability & build quality, but on the other one (a
VIP2) the tone/resonance is still up in the air...I think I made a mistake trying to mount an IRW neck on a VIP2 with FR Trem...and the tone is WAY too dark, so I'm getting a maple neck for it to see if that brings it out of the darkness and I'll use the IRW for something else.

As far as the AAAAA top I paid thru the nose for, Warmoth really kicked me in the nutz on that one...the quilt between the PUPs is either a bad cut or sanded-out and to add insult to injury there's a 5/32" - 3/16" gap between the fretboard and the top of the body, where the 21st/22nd frets hang-off the neck...

To tell you the truth, I really regret ever hearing the name Warmoth and wish I'd looked into the new Carvin Cal-Tops - I could have tossed the Carvin crappy PUPs in the trash and still been ahead in $$$ would've had a set neck.

Oh well, live and learn

BTW, did you see how ol' Gregg popped in with a Warmoth Corp. CYA statement...LOL :moon

He still hasn't had the balls to go public and claim that's a AAAAA quilt top he shipped me...

[Paul Secondino]

I'm not an expert on either company but I do trust what I learned from luthiers that I use. TBoth of them favor USA Custom Guitars most of the time. Their main reasons are tht USA Custom Guitars will give you what you want and Warmoth usually will not.

One of the things I'll never forget is that Warmoth does not allow you to get birdseye maple neck with a birdseye fretboard.Also, if yo uwant a 6 string body style that will accomodate a 7 string neck.........you guessed it, they wont do it. They offer two very ugly 7 string bodies.

IN essence, Warmoth is banging out guitar bodies and necks.Generally godo stuff but my two local luthiers are trusting more custom guitars to USA C.G

I have atleast personally met a few guys that got exactly what they wanted from USA Custom Guitars like super light bodies, special routing, and more easily accomodated custom headstock shapes. So my nod goes to USA C.G.

[Clorenzo]

I'm a very happy Warmoth customer and I've never used USACG. I did have a bad experience with one of the Warmoth reps the first time I contacted them, then switched to another one and never had a problem since. So far I've ordered:

Warmoth #1: Strat body from the Showcase, unfinished
Warmoth #2: Strat body and neck, custom made, finished
Warmoth #3: LP Showcase body, custom made neck, finished
Warmoth #4: Jazz bass body and neck from the Showcase, finished
Warmoth #5: Deluxe 5 bass body and neck from the Showcase, finisned
Warmoth #6: LPS body and Warmoth neck, custom made, finished
Warmoth #7: Tele Showcase body and custom made neck, finished

#6 and #7 haven't arrived yet, so I can't comment on those. As you can see most of the stuff is from the Showcase, which to me is one of the major advantages of Warmoth, the possibility of choosing parts from a huge stock and seeing what you will get in advance. However, with the custom made parts, I've always got what I wanted and more. #2 has a koa body, I asked for a specific shade (more chocolatey / walnut-like, not so orangeish as it usually is) and they gave me a gorgeous one exactly like that, plus a rosewood fingerboard that matches it colourwise almost perfectly, which I didn't request but was very nice to have. The fit and finish quality has always been flawless and their fretwork is very good.

As for the acoustic quality of the woods, no complaints either: so far all have given me the tone I wanted and sometimes better. The Jazz bass in particular, which to be honest I bought because I couldn't resist the drop dead gorgeous figured walnut laminate, is one of the very best I have ever played (I'm mainly a bassit), you can play chords on it with no mud at all and the harmonic richness is piano-like. And that's without even plugging it in. The price of the hardware and pickups they offer is competitive (this is important when ordering from abroad, you want to get as much as possible in a single order to save on shipping costs) and they have always delivered on schedule or earlier. I wish they included a truss-rod wrench with each neck but that's about my major complaint about Warmoth.

[Gary Ladd]

Originally posted by Clorenzo
I'm a very happy Warmoth customer and I've never used USACG. I did have a bad experience with one of the Warmoth reps the first time I contacted them, then switched to another one and never had a problem since. So far I've ordered:

Warmoth #1: Strat body from the Showcase, unfinished
Warmoth #2: Strat body and neck, custom made, finished
Warmoth #3: LP Showcase body, custom made neck, finished
Warmoth #4: Jazz bass body and neck from the Showcase, finished
Warmoth #5: Deluxe 5 bass body and neck from the Showcase, finisned
Warmoth #6: LPS body and Warmoth neck, custom made, finished
Warmoth #7: Tele Showcase body and custom made neck, finished

#6 and #7 haven't arrived yet, so I can't comment on those. As you can see most of the stuff is from the Showcase, which to me is one of the major advantages of Warmoth, the possibility of choosing parts from a huge stock and seeing what you will get in advance. However, with the custom made parts, I've always got what I wanted and more. #2 has a koa body, I asked for a specific shade (more chocolatey / walnut-like, not so orangeish as it usually is) and they gave me a gorgeous one exactly like that, plus a rosewood fingerboard that matches it colourwise almost perfectly, which I didn't request but was very nice to have. The fit and finish quality has always been flawless and their fretwork is very good.

As for the acoustic quality of the woods, no complaints either: so far all have given me the tone I wanted and sometimes better. The Jazz bass in particular, which to be honest I bought because I couldn't resist the drop dead gorgeous figured walnut laminate, is one of the very best I have ever played (I'm mainly a bassit), you can play chords on it with no mud at all and the harmonic richness is piano-like. And that's without even plugging it in. The price of the hardware and pickups they offer is competitive (this is important when ordering from abroad, you want to get as much as possible in a single order to save on shipping costs) and they have always delivered on schedule or earlier. I wish they included a truss-rod wrench with each neck but that's about my major complaint about Warmoth.

Just curious, how much gap was there on the LP between the top of the body and the fretboard overhang?

BTW, a Warmoth employee told me that they've been going thru a lot of luthiery employees lately and things have been not as good as in years past...and as far as picking woods, ol' man Warmoth doesn't believe in it...no tapping, no comparisons, nada.

USACG checks ALL wood for tone and the neck luthier is the former ace from Fender's Custom shop.

Moreover, their skilled painter left a few years ago (he paints for USACG now) and that they've been having problems with getting good finishes consistently, even one of the Warmoth sons gave it a shot and washed-out.

BTW, most of the "showcase" stuff is botched paint/tops and customer returns.

[Clorenzo]

Originally posted by Gary Ladd
Just curious, how much gap was there on the LP between the top of the body and the fretboard overhang?

BTW, a Warmoth employee told me that they've been going thru a lot of luthiery employees lately and things have been not as good as in years past...and as far as picking woods, ol' man Warmoth doesn't believe in it...no tapping, no comparisons, nada.

USACG checks ALL wood for tone and the neck luthier is the former ace from Fender's Custom shop.

Moreover, their skilled painter left a few years ago (he paints for USACG now) and that they've been having problems with getting good finishes consistently, even one of the Warmoth sons gave it a shot and washed-out.

BTW, most of the "showcase" stuff is botched paint/tops and customer returns.

The gap is about 0.02" on the LP. On the Jazz bass it's about 3/32". It doesn't bother me at all. For those who haven't had a look at the Seymour Duncan forum thread, someone posted there pictures of Anderson, Suhr, Fender and USA Charvel guitars with such gaps. I think it's normal when the fretboard extends beyond the neck heel.

As I said, I've only received very good wood and perfect paint jobs so far. I must be very lucky. And good for USAGC that they have the best luthiers, wood pickers and painters in the world, but of my 7 projects above, given my choices of woods and body shapes, only the Tele would have been possible with USAGC, and that's if you're ok with that ugly flat contour at the output jack spot and a non-Fender headstock shape.

*Most* of the Showcase is botched paint/tops and returns? It really *really* doesn't look like it.

I think you're angry at Warmoth for that AAAAA top and I have to say I agree with you, I don't think that's acceptable, but you should have checked it when you received it and returned it if you didn't like it. If most of the Showcase is returns, I guess it must be an easy thing to do, right? It seems to me that you wanted this to become a Warmoth bashing thread (it's actually a good idea, Gibson bashing is getting old) and I spoiled the fun with my positive comments, but you said "share your experiences" without specifying that they should be bad ones. Sorry.

[telest]

Originally posted by Paul Secondino
One of the things I'll never forget is that Warmoth does not allow you to get birdseye maple neck with a birdseye fretboard.

I just bought a Birdseye Maple neck w/BM fretboard off their Showcase. Maybe they changed their policy?
I've built a lot of Warmoth stuff and have been very satisfied for the most part. I did buy a USA Tele body once that was very good as well. Tommy at USA is a great guy, and I would much rather deal with him, but Warmoth has a larger selection with their Showcase etc...so I usually end up there. I do think Warmoth's policy of not allowing you to add to an order after it's been place in the system is idiotic.
As someone else said in another post about parts guitars, it's kind of a crap shoot as far as how the finished product will turn out.

Steve

[mattmccloskey]

I have had good luck with warmoth. I ordered a swamp ash xtra lite strat body at one point and recieved a perfectly finished body with matching so well it looked one peice, and it was 3 lbs 4 oz. Super light and wonderful grain. I have a birdseye neck with rosewood board that is beautiful. I do notice that some of the showcase stuff may have really small paint imperfections, like a little rub-off at the edge of the neck pocket for example. But you get a massive discount on that stuff. I have a fiesta red alder body that has a tiny spot on the edge of the bottem of the neck pocket where the finish is a little funny.BUT it cost only 235 bucks, and is perfect otherwise.
The USA stuff looks to be great quality, but it costs so much more. To get it finished costs more than what I paid for my last body. I just think at that price with adding great hardware you might as well get a suhr or anderson,etc.
I just have had pretty good luck with warmoth and find them quick, inexpensive, and the wood is nicer than I see on production guitars, so it works for me.

[Gary Ladd]

Originally posted by Clorenzo
The gap is about 0.02" on the LP. On the Jazz bass it's about 3/32". It doesn't bother me at all. For those who haven't had a look at the Seymour Duncan forum thread, someone posted there pictures of Anderson, Suhr, Fender and USA Charvel guitars with such gaps. I think it's normal when the fretboard extends beyond the neck heel.

As I said, I've only received very good wood and perfect paint jobs so far. I must be very lucky. And good for USAGC that they have the best luthiers, wood pickers and painters in the world, but of my 7 projects above, given my choices of woods and body shapes, only the Tele would have been possible with USAGC, and that's if you're ok with that ugly flat contour at the output jack spot and a non-Fender headstock shape.

*Most* of the Showcase is botched paint/tops and returns? It really *really* doesn't look like it.

I think you're angry at Warmoth for that AAAAA top and I have to say I agree with you, I don't think that's acceptable, but you should have checked it when you received it and returned it if you didn't like it. If most of the Showcase is returns, I guess it must be an easy thing to do, right? It seems to me that you wanted this to become a Warmoth bashing thread (it's actually a good idea, Gibson bashing is getting old) and I spoiled the fun with my positive comments, but you said "share your experiences" without specifying that they should be bad ones. Sorry.

Yeppers, I'm not too happy with Warmoth...and I would have returned that "AAAAA" B$ body if I could've...didn't notice it was a dog until it got back from my luthier.

BTW, it seems like the people that bash Warmoth the most are their employees, except for Gregg who must be getting BIG bucks to kiss butt like he does...LOL

:moon

[BadgerDave]

I've purchased about a dozen necks and bodies from Warmoth and have been exteremely pleased with the quality of both parts and service. Here's a photo of the latest, a flame koa over mahogany thinline body. It was purchased from the showcase and I can assure you that it has no flaws.



I had one problem with a Warmoth product. I received a fatback Strat neck that wouldn't completly flatten out before the truss rod ran out of adjustment room. Warmoth took it back and gave me full credit on a replacement even though it was past the 10 day return period and I had drilled and mounted the neck.

Gary, I think you have only yourself to blame for your complaints.

Warmoth would have given you a replacement or refunded your money had you objected to the quilt body you received. All you had to do was ask. You didn't bother to check, sent it off to have it finished, and are now unhappy with the results. How do you know the guy who did the sunburst on that body didn't sand out the grain?

As to the gap between the fretboard extension and the body, it's not a defect. Obviously, the fretboard extension is the same height as the fretboard. The fretboard height can't be lowered without lowering the bridge as well. Otherwise, you end up with the strings too high over the fretboard. Strat bridges have a limited adjustment range. As has been pointed out to you, every builder who employs a fretboard extension over the body on a Strat type guitar has a similar gap. It's unavoidable unless you redesign the bridge and deepen the neck pocket. Even if you do both, you're likely to have problems with the strings being too low over the pickups and pickguard. At best, this setup will be nothing like a regular Strat setup. At worst, it will be unplayable. If you don't like the look of the gap, get a 21 fret neck.

[John Bell]

Whoever is bitching about his quilt top got what he ordered.That clearly looks like 5A too me.The finish makes it look average.Usually the custom makers do a double stain technique to bring out the figure more.It appears Warmoth didn't do that.

I've always been happy with any Warmoth stuff I've owned.I tried to order from USACG twice.Noticed I said "tried"

The guy I talked to twice sounded as if he had been doing bong hits all morning.I left several messages for Tommy to get back to me on specs.He still hasn't called.

[Cheebatone]

I'm suprised to hear Warmoth supply bad sounding wood. I could swear that I read a story not so long ago that said Warmoth supplied bodies to one or two of the more respected guitar companies like Suhr, Tyler, Anderson or someone. Perhaps it was USACG that supplied the bodies.

Anybody like to confirm or correct me on this?

[John Bell]

Originally posted by Cheebatone
I'm suprised to hear Warmoth supply bad sounding wood. I could swear that I read a story not so long ago that said Warmoth supplied bodies to one or two of the more respected guitar companies like Suhr, Tyler, Anderson or someone. Perhaps it was USACG that supplied the bodies.

Anybody like to confirm or correct me on this?

Warmoth has supplied some of them in the past,but from what I understand B Hefner Co. now supplies the bodies and necks for many.Was told this buy someone in the business.

[mattmccloskey]

I know for sure Anderson and Suhr do and always did make their own bodies, necks, pickguards.
I have heard on a number of occasions that warmoth cut bodies for fender custom shop stuff. This makes more sense to me because many custom shop models are outsourced and not done at the main factory.
I think warmoth makes nice stuff, and if someone had a bad experience with a particular rep or whatever, that is a drag; but on the whole they seem to really do good work and have good service and prices.