Stone Age cab - what speakers?

[papersoul]

Hey gents,

The good man at Stone Age is going to be building me a sweet 212C very shortly. I know I came a long way in making this decision. I can't deny all the stellar reviews and after talking to John, it is a done deal. The man is world class!

Anyway, just trying to find the right speakers.

I am leaning heavily toward Scumbacks. Need something that would work for my Egnater Mod 50(Marshall mods), VHT ST/50 (medium gain EL34 amp) and a Plexi type amp. I have always thought non master volum amps like Plexis work best with lower wattage speakers like Greenbacks and newer MV channel switching amps seem to work best with higher wattage speakers like CL-80s.

So....I was looking trying a happy medium in Celestion G12-65s.

I really want to do the Scumback thing, but deciding on the large dust cap vs small is not easy! LOL.

Ideas?

Thanks.

[MGSchindel]

Originally Posted by papersoul

Hey gents,

The good man at Stone Age is going to be building me a sweet 212C very shortly. I know I came a long way in making this decision. I can't deny all the stellar reviews and after talking to John, it is a done deal. The man is world class!

Anyway, just trying to find the right speakers.

I am leaning heavily toward Scumbacks. Need something that would work for my Egnater Mod 50(Marshall mods), VHT ST/50 (medium gain EL34 amp) and a Plexi type amp. I have always thought non master volum amps like Plexis work best with lower wattage speakers like Greenbacks and newer MV channel switching amps seem to work best with higher wattage speakers like CL-80s.

So....I was looking trying a happy medium in Celestion G12-65s.

I really want to do the Scumback thing, but deciding on the large dust cap vs small is not easy! LOL.

Ideas?

Thanks.

You're going to have to compromise, one way or the other, especially with a 2x12, and even moreso if it is being gigged/played loud. To me, those three amps will each beg a different speaker setup to sound optimum in their own right. But ultimately it will come down to your personal taste, the way you dial your amps, what music you are playing through them, and what other gear you are using to get your tones. CL80s are a no-brainer and very flexible, but are very clear and articulate rather than warm or woody, and you really have to stick it out and break them in well. As a result, some people feel they are a jack of all trades master of none. 12-65s are warm, midrangey and wooly, with good chunk, but are a totally different animal tonally, and lack the big open clear voice or sparkly cleans some people prefer. V30s can handle the power and volume but in some cabs can have their own chesty upper mid harshness thing going on, with a rolled-off top end, which polarizes people to either hate or love them, live or for recording. Scumbacsk are great speakers but to me, don't sound like celestions, new or old. They have their own sound and feel going on, and each model is quite different sounding as compared to the other models, just like the different celestions.

Do you want early break-up from the speakers? Do you prefer/need the brighter treble and bigger bass of a large-magnet speaker? How much will you be using cleans vs medium distortion vs high gain tones? Are you going to be gigging with it? Cranking up loud over a hard-hitting drummer or for larger/outdoor venues? Or recording with it at more reasonable volumes? Do you need more cut to be heard in a mix? Does the overall weight of the cab matter to you? Are you adverse to combining more than one speaker type in the same 2x12?

Lots of things to consider, but only your ear can choose ultimately. Your specific application may dictate your speaker choice, or at least help narrow it down some....

[papersoul]

"brighter treble and bigger bass of a large-magnet speaker"??? On the Scumback site they talk about larger caps resulting in smoother treble.

I am thinking my best bet is the Scumback M75/H75(65 watters) with large dust cap for my Stone Age 212C and the Scumback M75/H75(65 watters) small dust caps for my THD 212. That will save my from feeling I need to now get a Marshall 412 with GBs.

One thing I like is darker tones, good, good mids. I do not like extended highs and lows or too bright a top. I use mostyl medium to higher gain tones.. some somgs have clean but we have 2-3 songs that are almost all clean. Gigging will be small clubs and bars. Maybe some medium size venues, but not often! Weight does matter because I have little desire to haul around 412s any longer but I have considered again.

I even thought of having a separate cab for each amp....but with how often I swap amps...I felt it best to get a good over sized 212 and good light weight 212. MAYBE a 412 once we get out of the condo and into a house this year.

My VHT is much more vintage than the new VHTs(Fryettes). I get great medium rock tones from it! So, I decided against the uber tight VHT cabs for it.

[thegame]

Originally Posted by MGSchindel

Scumbacsk are great speakers but to me, don't sound like celestions, new or old. They have their own sound and feel going on,

In general, darker than Celestions ?

[DigitalHater]

Originally Posted by papersoul

"brighter treble and bigger bass of a large-magnet speaker"??? On the Scumback site they talk about larger caps resulting in smoother treble.

You're talking dust caps, he's talking magnets. A bigger magnet makes more power, needing a bigger voice coil. This provides tighter bass, usually a bright high end, and avoiding speaker breakup. A smaller magnet overloads quicker, and the smaller voice coil really increases the touch sensitivity of the speaker.
In my experience it comes down to this:
Clean amp = big magnet, double the power handling the amp could put out.
Crunch amp = I like as small, and underpowered a speaker as that amp can handle without shredding it apart. It's a fine line, I usually try to go just a little bit higher wattage that the amp is rated for.

These are all generalizations just based on magnet and voice coil, once you start adding in cone construction/type, doping, dust covers, etc. etc. it can make your head spin trying to figure out what you need.

I might add, I don't do high gain, just turning up old combos till they scream in pain, so my advice might be worthless to you. And if I got some terminology wrong, my bad, I think I've learned a lot over at the Weber speaker forums, but sometimes I get schooled.

[papersoul]

Digital Hater...yep...sorry I just saw he actually was talking dust caps!

I am on the fence with larger magnets because to me they become more scooped and modern. Maybe I will keep one cab with my CL-80s or a similar speakers like one of the large magnet Scums. Actually I thought combining the Scum H75 and M75 as Jim recommends would be nice because you get the best of both worlds. Then having a cab with one set of large dust caps will further add to the versatility.

I am not sure about the dust cap on something like a Celestion G12-65.

I like your thoughts on speakers man. All my heads are 50 watts and I use 212s...but I fear using 25 watters!

[DigitalHater]

Don't be scared of mixing speakers. I have a Super Reverb with 4 different speakers in it. Complexity, baby. The one and only problem I have, is that when I mic it, I have to decide what kind of sound to go for.

And about that fear of using 25 watters, I'm with you. I don't mean to sound like a Weber salesman (I'm always telling everyone to buy their speakers), but they conservatively rate their speakers, go with their 30 watters (most companies 40/45) and feel good about yourself.

You could always go with a 30 watter and a 60/80 watter, there you have your tight bass AND crunchy mids, just thinking out loud here.

[Paul86]

You know papersoul,
If you don't come up with pics, nobody here will believe you got one of those beauties.

[guitarvc]

Originally Posted by papersoul

Hey gents,

The good man at Stone Age is going to be building me a sweet 212C very shortly. I know I came a long way in making this decision. I can't deny all the stellar reviews and after talking to John, it is a done deal. The man is world class!

Anyway, just trying to find the right speakers.

I am leaning heavily toward Scumbacks. Need something that would work for my Egnater Mod 50(Marshall mods), VHT ST/50 (medium gain EL34 amp) and a Plexi type amp. I have always thought non master volum amps like Plexis work best with lower wattage speakers like Greenbacks and newer MV channel switching amps seem to work best with higher wattage speakers like CL-80s.

So....I was looking trying a happy medium in Celestion G12-65s.

I really want to do the Scumback thing, but deciding on the large dust cap vs small is not easy! LOL.

Ideas?

Thanks.

I use a Mod 50 and Stone Age 2x12 with Celestion Heritage 65's and it is a beautiful thing. John at Stone age made the suggestion, and me being a career V30 guy, I took a risk...it surely paid off. To my ears they are the best for handling both clean and overdriven tones. The midrange is killer for gigging...cut through without any harshness.

[J.T. Guitar]

Austin Speaker Works; an Elegante mixed with a KTS-70 es muy-bueno!



Congrats on the Stone-Age... you'll love it!

[papersoul]

Originally Posted by DigitalHater

Don't be scared of mixing speakers. I have a Super Reverb with 4 different speakers in it. Complexity, baby. The one and only problem I have, is that when I mic it, I have to decide what kind of sound to go for.

And about that fear of using 25 watters, I'm with you. I don't mean to sound like a Weber salesman (I'm always telling everyone to buy their speakers), but they conservatively rate their speakers, go with their 30 watters (most companies 40/45) and feel good about yourself.

You could always go with a 30 watter and a 60/80 watter, there you have your tight bass AND crunchy mids, just thinking out loud here.

Jim recommends the 65 watters. I think with Webers, the higher tha output...the warmer. Is it the same with Scumbacks. Not sure.....I guess so?

Don't worry I will have pics when all is said and done....there might be some surprises as well. Not saying anymore.

Ithought about going to the Celestion G12-65s but I decided why not go for it all with Scumbacks.

[WesKuhnley]

Check out the WGS line of speakers. Their Reaper and Reaper 55Hz are fantastic.

[papersoul]

I thoguht of WGS, other Celestions, Eminence...but if I don't get the best...I know I will always wonder...what if? So, I am getting Scumbacks.

[J.T. Guitar]

Originally Posted by papersoul

I thoguht of WGS, other Celestions, Eminence...but if I don't get the best...I know I will always wonder...what if? So, I am getting Scumbacks.

I thought you said the best...

Seriously, I've owned both, Scumbacks are ok speakers. ASWs are on another level IMHO. Louder, punchier, and more complex.

[papersoul]

Originally Posted by J.T. Guitar

I thought you said the best...

Seriously, I've owned both, Scumbacks are ok speakers. ASWs are on another level IMHO. Louder, punchier, and more complex.

But now you talking big $$$$$$$$$