Celestion G12M question...

[nickthenail]

Are G12M's (1998, 25w, built in UK) closer to present day G12M reissues or the Heritage G12M?

Thanks!

[Fireball XL5]

I've owned cabs with all 3 versions and I'm fairly certain that the current 25 watt G12M reissue made in China hasn't changed in specs from the older UK manufactured version. They're the exact same speaker in tone, efficiency & response. The Heritage G12M is much less efficient (96 db. as opposed to 98 db. for the reissue) and is voiced differently.

[SatelliteAmps]

And the Heritage G12M has a different voice coil, with a lower wattage rating (Heritage is 20 watts, UK & Chinese Greenbacks are 25 watts).

[MGSchindel]

Originally Posted by Fireball XL5

I've owned cabs with all 3 versions and I'm fairly certain that the current 25 watt G12M reissue made in China hasn't changed in specs from the older UK manufactured version. They're the exact same speaker in tone, efficiency & response. The Heritage G12M is much less efficient (96 db. as opposed to 98 db. for the reissue) and is voiced differently.

I currently own all these speakers, and the G12C's, and more. Fireball is mostly correct, except that some of the 80's and/or 90's G12M UK reissues (not all) used the 6402 cone, a different adhesive and doping materials, etc., and there is a slight tonal difference to my ears, mostly warmer in the mids, and a glassier top end, once well broken in.

The UK G12M reissues with 1777 cones, however, sound about the same as the current chinese G12M reissues with 1777 cone, fairly loud, aggressive and crunchy greenbacks, good stuff, even though I like the 6402's slightly better as they seem closer to my original 70s 25w 75hz creambacks and blackbacks, maybe, although my 6402s are really well broken in.....

The newer UK G12M Heritage, though, sounds nothing like any of the older or other newer reissue greenbacks, to me. Different voice coil and cone altogether. They have a softer bottom end and an odd upper mid congestion if you push too much gain into them. They almost sound like low wattage Vintage 30s when recorded. I prefer the original 70's greenbacks, the uk 6402 G12M reissues and the uk and chinese 1777 cone G12M reissues over the Heritages. YMMV.

If you're buying the uk reissues, check to see which cone is in in them, but they all sound good from that era. Check carefully for voice coil rub!

[Fireball XL5]

Originally Posted by MGSchindel

The newer UK G12M Heritage, though, sounds nothing like any of the older or other newer reissue greenbacks, to me. Different voice coil and cone altogether. They have a softer bottom end and an odd upper mid congestion if you push too much gain into them. They almost sound like low wattage Vintage 30s when recorded. I prefer the original 70's greenbacks, the uk 6402 G12M reissues and the uk and chinese 1777 cone G12M reissues over the Heritages. YMMV.

I agree. I owned two different 4x12 cabs loaded with the Heritage G12M's that I used in conjunction with my vintage Marshall amps and I didn't care for their tone or response at all. My current 4x12 is loaded with the newer Chinese made standard G12M RI's and I GREATLY prefer them over the Heritage version in every regard.

[MGSchindel]

Originally Posted by Fireball XL5

I agree. I owned two different 4x12 cabs loaded with the Heritage G12M's that I used in conjunction with my vintage Marshall amps and I didn't care for their tone or response at all. My current 4x12 is loaded with the newer Chinese made standard G12M RI's and I GREATLY prefer them over the Heritage version in every regard.

Yep, the softer, more compressed feel and smeary bass of the Heritages, combined with their compressed mid- spike, strips your marshall head of its balls. They sound warm and vintage 60s' for some cleaner, lower to mid gain tones, but I agree that the smeary, soft feel alone is a deal killer. The chinese G12M RI is nicely woody, warm, crunchy, punchy, has good treble bite, and a more solid, chunky response. YMMV. I like the G12C's too, they're more like the G12M RI.

[nickthenail]

Thanks guys. The reason I'm asking is because I have an opportunity to purchase late 90's G12M's. I want to compare if I like them more than my old G12-75's. How would one be able to tell a 6402 cone from a 1777 cone....is it labeled?

[MGSchindel]

Originally Posted by nickthenail

Thanks guys. The reason I'm asking is because I have an opportunity to purchase late 90's G12M's. I want to compare if I like them more than my old G12-75's. How would one be able to tell a 6402 cone from a 1777 cone....is it labeled?

Look all over on the back of the cone, inside the basket. The cone will be numbered/stamped somewhere on the back, usually with small white print. If there are no numbers on the backs of the cones at all, then they may be re-coned, btw.

Good luck! If in good and original shape, these are good speakers and a cool alternative tone to the 75s. Warmer.