Avatar 2x12 too boomy!

[gkelm]

Originally posted by telewacker
I mentioned this in the Guytron appreciation thread. At least with this amp the Avatar is too boomy and unbalanced with mid frequencies, no matter what speakers I've tried. Anyone know of a cab that will emphasize mids more and bottom less? I'm guessing something shallower front to back. Hopefully I can find something of a comparable value so I don't have to lose $$. I'm inthe Bay Area and willing to trade with someone if you're interested.

Really like my Avy. Is yours open or closed back? I'd think the open might be boomier, so maybe close it up?
Greg

[cr8z4life]

I honestly think what you are reacting to is the open back, which is what most Avatars are.....I have one open back Avatar and I am going to order a closed back from them.......I like the open back with v12 's for a cleaner chimey tone and the closed back with g12h30 and v30 for classic rock tighter tones

[Tom CT]

Originally posted by telewacker
the Avatar is too boomy and unbalanced with mid frequencies, no matter what speakers I've tried.

Move the cabinet away from the wall. I'm serious - if it's in a "music room", that can be the culprit right there.

[6AM]

I can't believe someone hasn't mentioned it yet, but to make a close backed cab (assuming that's what it is) less boomy the easiest thing to do is to insulate it.

Get a piece of insulation or cotton batting and glue it to the back (and if you’re still not happy, the sides).

[telewacker]

There ain't no more knob to twist! The bass is rolled all the way down. As I mentioned the tone controls on this amp have a very small range of amplitude compared to any other amp I'm familiar with.

I believe it is a combination of the voicing of the amp's eq and the resonant peak of the cab. There's a huge peak at low C on the neck pup.

Interesting comment about 2x12 relative to 4x12....too bad a 4x12 won't fit in my trunk, LOL!

I know I've just scratched the surface with drivers, but I play for a living and buying equipment is expensive! I can't afford to spend any more $$ right now. The amp does sound really good with a single V30, so if need be I'll just parlay the Avatar into a couple of 1x12s.

I just got an offer to swap the Celes for a pair of Emi Stonehenges. Anyone know what these speaker's characteristics are?

[telewacker]

It's an open back, it's not against the wall. I tried stuffing it with an old comforter just to see if that would help. It didn't. I'll try closing it up and then adding dampening material. Wish I had another V30 to throw in there . I just sold one two weeks ago

Anyone in the Bay Area want to trade one + $30 for a new Red Fang?

[johnny5]

Originally posted by telewacker
It's an open back, it's not against the wall. I tried stuffing it with an old comforter just to see if that would help. It didn't. I'll try closing it up and then adding dampening material. Wish I had another V30 to throw in there . I just sold one two weeks ago

Anyone in the Bay Area want to trade one + $30 for a new Red Fang?

i live in oakland and think i could part with one of my V30's for the Red fang trade.

pm me and we will work something out.

[roknfnrol]

Aren't avatar cabinets plywood?

[HeeHaw]

Originally posted by ringmod
Aren't avatar cabinets plywood?

Most cabs are plywood. Be it Baltic birch or otherwise. High end cabs can be made of pine and maybe exotic woods.

[telewacker]

Problem solved. I sold the Avatar and got a JDesign open back 2x12 made out of PINE and 2.5" shallower, 1" less in height. Way more balanced!! Like night and day. I put a Mullard CV4004 in the first stage of Channel a in the GT100 and I'm getting a spectacular clean tone with the Tele...the best country twang I've ever got, including my BF, SF Fenders and even my 59 tweed Bassman I sold 10 years ago like an idiot. I ordered a NOS GE JAN 5751 to try in the EL84 phase splitter position. We'll see how it works. Still not sure about the Channel B tube yet...the Mullard didn't work in that position. Any ideas on what to try?

[bob p]

I ran into the same problem with the Avatar 2x12 "fender style" closed-back cabinet being WAY TOO BOOMY with a pair of Greenbacks. Its funny that some people notice it as being a real problem while others don't. Some of it may be attributable to the design of your amp.

I hate to paint with a wide brush by making generalized statements, but one reason that this cab combo may sound better with a Marshall type amp than with a Fender is because the amps are voiced differently. Most of the Marshall type amps have tonestacks that are voiced for a closed back cab, and the inherent sonic effects that it brings to the table. Fenders, in contrast, are typically voiced for open-backed cabs. As a result, when you hook a Marshall head up to an Avatar cab, the results might be exactly what you're looking for, while with a Fender amp you'll wish that you had a bass control that went lower than zero.

I'm currently wrestling with this problem with a new pair of Greenbacks in an Avatar closed-back 2x12. The GB speaker has an Fs of 75 Hz, and the box also appears to have a resonant frequency in the 150 Hz range. Superimposing these on one another, the bass is way to boomy with all of my Fender style amps, including my Mesa Mk IV.

I've found that I can compensate for the exaggerated bass response in the closed-back cabinet configuration with the Mk IV's 80 Hz EQ slider. Unfortunately, not all of my amps have EQ, so my hand often ends up being forced into throwing an EQ stopbox into the signal chain -- a less than optimal solution.

The other option is to convert the cabinet into an open-backed configuration, but that's not a particularly good solution for speakers like Greenbacks, which tend to mush out at higher volume levels in an open-backed cab.

One other approach that I had been considering is adding batting to 3 adjacent walls of the cabinet to shift the box's resonant frequency downward. If all else fails I have considered converting the cabinet to a Thiele-Small array -- that would allow precise control of the tuning of the cabinet -- unfortunately, Celestion refuses to give out T-S parameters for their speakers, and this makes an intellectual approach to the problem difficult.

[muddeone]

are we talking OPEN or CLOSED back here?

[bob p]

that would depend on whose post you're reading.

[Lou Brush]

Originally Posted by 6AM

I can't believe someone hasn't mentioned it yet, but to make a close backed cab (assuming that's what it is) less boomy the easiest thing to do is to insulate it.

Get a piece of insulation or cotton batting and glue it to the back (and if you’re still not happy, the sides).

That's exactly what I did with my 2x12 Avatar closed-back cab w/ V30s. I just insulated the inside back of my cab. Without the insulation, the sound tended to bounce around in the cab too much resulting in a boomy tone. I'm surprised more peeps don't do this simple mod to their Avatar cabs. I got the idea from my '64 Bandmaster cab... go figure.

[pepperco]

Side note......

Get the cab up off the floor for less boom and rumble.

My Avatar 2 by 12 lives on a movers dolly....YMMV.