Is Learning Economy Picking Bad For Me At This Point

[ubermetaldood]

I've been playing and think I've reached a physical limit to how fast I can pick. I've been playing for almost 3 years, practicing strict picking, and can't beat 16th notes at 130 bpm. I cannot do it perfectly any faster than that at this point.

I try bumping up the metronome a couple of clicks, and sometimes it seems like I made progress only to regress to about 124 bpm until I even my picking out again. I have to work to get back to 130 bpm again. Whenever I try playing past that speed my picking slowly falls apart and it's no longer perfect. I start missing a note here and there and next thing you know I've developed some jerkieness in my pick attack and I have to retrain to even out my picking stroke.

Yes I have tried many different picking/right hand styles. I don't use an index/thumb movement like Yngwie or a forearm movement like Kirk Hammet, just a regular style wrist motion with a little bit of knuckle movement in my thumb. I keep the pick at a slight incline so my pick attack is normal.

So to make a long story short I have been considering adopting economy picking or even incorporating hammer-on/pull-offs/legato to get away with fast runs.

I'm not getting any younger and I figure at this pace it will take 20 years to play what I want, that is if it's physically possible. I'm not gifted like those skinny players with long, limber little fingers. I have kind of big hands.

They say that economy picking limits your playing in that you end up having to plan every execution with the right picking sequence. I think basically I'm looking for a way to cheat in order to take my playing to a higher level.

Is this really a bad thing or does everybody do it?

[jbraun002]

"They" might say that about economy picking, but they'd be wrong.

Any picking technique is going to have strengths and weaknesses for various phrases (even, gasp, strict alternate picking!). And when I need to alternate pick part of a particular line (say I'm moving in one direction but only hitting two notes on a string), then I just do it. It's not a big deal. I don't think, "Ah, I better plan this line because it has a hiccup in it."

If you practice economy picking enough, and practice improvising with your scales using it, it'll become automatic. I myself liked Gambale's book on the subject - I thought that was the most helpful. But Jimmy Bruno's book might be worth looking into, especially as he doesn't shy away from mixing regular alt. picking across strings with the economy approach.

[acka_jacka]

If you want to learn economy picking go for it, it won't do harm and will actually open your playing up to licks you'd struggle with otherwise, the same as any technique. But don't learn it as a way of getting around alternate picking, because they're completely different sounds. Economy picking has less bite, especially when crossing strings, and won't substitute alternate picking in a rock or metal song.

Your alternate picking will improve so long as you keep playing and challenging yourself. Metronome exercises can help but in my opinion you shouldn't place too much attention on them or get stressed out by them. Speed will come with time.

[greggorypeccary]

Wow, I've been playing for over 25 years and I can't pick anywhere near that fast!!

[Flyin' Brian]

It seems that the best thing to do is to pick in a way that comfortable and that you don't have to consciously think about.

I never jacked a metronome up just to see if I could play ___notes at ___speed, because it never assured me that I could make musical statements at that speed.

I did realize that I do use a combination of economy picking and other types of picking, that it just seems to happen and that's good enough for me. Thinking about it reminds of of the joke; once a centipede found that he had 100 legs, he couldn't walk.

[KRosser]

It's best not to learn anything new....really, it can only end in tears.

[tone4days]

to me, the thing about economy picking, especially the gambale way, is not the physical aspect of learning it, but rather the fretboard knowledge that is required to rearrange the phrases you want to play to fit into the picking paradigm ...

i'd recommend you just take a nibble at economy picking to see if you can get some useful musical ideas coming out ... then you can decide if you want to take the plunge

i agree that picking should not be like bench pressing where you just try to build up to so many 16th notes at increasing BPMs .... its gotta be about the music you can make

good luck
t4d

[Neer]

At the risk of sounding like a wise ass, why not just make the notes you can play count for more? Note choices are even more important than how many you play, even in metal. You have an opportunity to create your own voice--there are already tons of shredders. You have to ask yourself, "where did it get them and is that really where I want to be?"

That said, absolutely try to incorporate economy picking into your playing. Mixing it up between the two styles is a good way to add some interesting sounds and variety into your playing.

[Luke]

At the end of the day, what is the objective?

16th note triplets at 184bpm?

If so, why?

At a certain point, it begins to sound like a weed wacker more than music.

Listen to how slow this beat is to make the playing sound fast.



To me that is music and quite possibly the best shredding I've ever heard.

Here is the atypical neoclassical shred:

[rich2k4]

if he wants to build up his picking speed let him. i don't blame him. I'm currently doing it too. i find if i build up my alternate picking using the metronome, it makes it easier to play stuff.

meaning if i build up to 150 bpm 16th notes. then picking at 120 bpm 16th notes would be easy for me, and it would make it easier to make lines at that tempo.

[marcher5877]

If you have only been playing for 3 years, then you are nowhere near how fast you can play. Talk to me in another 7 years.

[Guts]

Improving any aspect of your playing can only limit you as much you allow it to.
Speed-picking is a tool, not a style. Use it to your advantage but don't trap yourself in it.

Besides, you said that you've been playing for 3 years (quoting your first post). Well, you better give yourself more time than that, Django.

[buddastrat]

I always felt it's important to learn good alternate picking and strumming for learning how things feel in rhythm, first before doing the other styles like economy/sweep.
Learning any new techniques is definitely a good thing.

I'd recommend to get the number thing out of your head. It's like trying to lose weight, don't focus on the scale and your lbs. I could make up some incredibly difficult exercises that would be very hard for most anyone to play 16ths at 130 bpm on the guitar.

Most of the players, are playing things they programmed their fingers to do, through repition, and one thing often neglected is the fingering arrangement to suit the picking style no matter if it's alternate or economy. I have a couple examples from the very players you brought up.

It was a revelation for me when I found out that Yngwie "cheats" a lot, I used to try and play his stuff from books when I was young, with alternate picking and really struggled and even developed some injuries. This was before I saw how he did it. First the fingering was usually totally wrong from those books. Then I was so mad I had made it so difficult and literally wasted so many hours/months working at something the wrong way. He was using a mix of techniques and arranging and playing things in the easiest way possible. A big duh for me! And the big part was, he wasn't even picking everything, only giving the illusion of it. I got the speed, almost over night once I found out the right way to execute that.

As for Kirk Hammet, I came across a few Metallica solos, in "authorized transcription" books and for ex. the solo for Master of Puppets, that a student brought in and had been struggling with the solo for some time, I showed him the correct way and he had it, in that very lesson. The fingering arrangement is so critical, not just for the fret hand but the picking hand as well. I've seen many, many times those transcriptions are not correct and leads to much frustrations.

So my point is to try and realize what sound or what you want to accomplish, set goals which are achieveable and work towards them. Lessons can definitely help from someone who play/teaches in the style that can help you acheive what you want, by showing proper technique and proper fingering for those styles.

[rich2k4]

care to explain how yngwie does it? i find that interesting

[Calvin]

Originally Posted by Guts

Improving any aspect of your playing can only limit you as much you allow it to.
Speed-picking is a tool, not a style. Use it to your advantage but don't trap yourself in it.

+1

I've been playing for a bunch of years, and can't alternate pick as fast as the OP. However, I learned to play using legato techniques and some economy picking along with alternate picking early on in my musical life, so I have a variety of tools in the toolbox. With that variety of tools, I can use whatever happens to spring from my heart to my hands at any given instant.

Economy picking and legato techniques are not "cheating". They are different techniques that allow for different sounds.

But (speaking to the OP now), if you're sure that you're only ever going to play in a very specific style whose practitioners won't tolerate legato or economy-picked phrases, I guess you're stuck with continuing to work on the alternate picking. I doubt you've maxed out after only 3 years, but there's probably not a whole heck of lot of upside remaining - perhaps up to 20% or so, I'd guess.