What is a straw man argument?

[rob2001]

OK, I missed debating 101 and this term comes up in just about every debate here. WTF is a straw man?

[The Last Rebel]

Basically, it's when one person takes a view point or position a second person holds, wildly distorts it, attacks the distorted point, then claims that the second persons original point is also wrong.

Or more simplified:

1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
3. Person B attacks position Y.
4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

[TwoTubMan]

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html

[rob2001]

OK, got it...thanks. Funny thing, but it seems to me, just as using the straw man, it can be equally twisting to claim a POV is straw man.

[Zilmo]

It's the new buzzword used extensively on TGP.

[ACfixer]

Originally Posted by rob2001

OK, got it...thanks. Funny thing, but it seems to me, just as using the straw man, it can be equally twisting to claim a POV is straw man.

Straw man.

[rob2001]

Originally Posted by ACfixer

Straw man.

Oh, OK...so basically straw man can be thrown out there any time. It does sound like a way to totally dismiss and discredit a statement.


So i'll see your straw man and raise two!

[ACfixer]

Originally Posted by rob2001

Oh, OK...so basically straw man can be thrown out there any time. It does sound like a way to totally dismiss and discredit a statement.


So i'll see your straw man and raise two!

Now you're getting it.

[jay42]

There was a decent explanation the last time I looked on Wikipedia. I think of it this way...someone amoral wants to out-argue you, but mostly make you feel like crap. They start with something that sounds good, but isn't true, like, "No one wants war, right?." Once you agree you're doomed until you walk away.

[Jon Silberman]

A straw man - think of a scarecrow - is an exaggerated person and very light in weight. As such, it's easy to topple. A straw man argument is when you create an opposite viewpoint to your own that is so exaggerated and light intellectually that you make it easy to topple argumentatively.

Here's an example: Jon Silberman says, "I don't like Les Pauls. I just can't get the tones in my head from those guitars. I sold the one I had and never want another."

That's Jon's actual statement.

The next TGP'er comes on and says, "Jon Silberman says that Les Pauls suck and don't have any good tones in them."

That's a straw man argument. It's a twisted version of my actual statement, exaggerated to make it easy to attack. Obviously, Les Pauls do not suck and have tons of good tones in them. The actual truth is, Jon Silberman loves Les Paul tones. Indeed, some of his favorite guitarists in the world that have most deeply influenced his own playing play Les Pauls. All he really said is they don't work for him.

P.S. Not that this is an actual TGP example, of course.

[Johns7022]

I was on the debate team...the wiki example is horrible and misleading...so I looked around...most are horrible explanations..

Not even sure this definition holds...but if you argue from the point of the other guy...find problems with his own argument, from a socratic point of view that might be it.

For instance....instead of just arguing your position...you can take his position, and find all the logic conclusions he would take using his logic....again not sure that is 'Straw man' but taking the other person's position and tearing it down, shows you understand both sides of the argument and can show the other person where he is at fault, because you understand his position..

Gun control...taking the other person's position of no one should have guns...you could say...'ok...there you are, in your bedroom, with a guy standing over you and your wife with a 12" knife...you will

A- Try to talk him out of it
b- bum rush him with your MMA shoot fight skills
C- Let him rape your wife, hope for the best, as not having a gun over all is better for society...

So your taking the other guy's position....I think this is the 'Straw Man' Argument...but I am not sure...it's the internet...and finding the truth here is like finding a needle in a haystack.

[rob2001]

LOL! just realized my drummer rolls out the straw man all the time! He'll exaggerate a point made and then blow it out of the water because his version was so unbelievably twisted. Next practice should be fun!

[Hwoltage]

Originally Posted by The Last Rebel

Basically, it's when one person takes a view point or position a second person holds, wildly distorts it, attacks the distorted point, then claims that the second persons original point is also wrong.

Or more simplified:

1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
3. Person B attacks position Y.
4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

LOL That sounds like a great way to win an argument!!!!

[Derek Q]

A more recent example:

TGP'er #1: I put the guitar down in its stand. The stand fell over.
TGP'er #2: So you think it's cool to just go into guitar stores, do Pete Townsend impersonations, then tell the store "Screw you, I'm not paying for the broken guitar?" Dude, that's lame.

TGP'er #2 is setting up a straw man.

[smallbutmighty]

A straw-man argument is when a person mischaracterizes their oponents argument, defeats the mischaracterization, and then claims to have defeated the real argument.

It can also be when a person defeats only a part of their opponents argument, and by doing so claims to have defeated the entire argument.


As far as it being a TGP, that's fine with me. Hopefully it will expanding to other boards. I love it when people get called out on it.