HD400 into Tech21 TM60

[radix]

Hi to all
anyone using the above combination?
For a few days now, have been tweaking the HD400 (neglected cousin of HD500 for those who are unaware) into the return of the Tech21 Trademark 60.

For some of the clean sounds, actually setting to Preamp mode sounds great(better than full), but i can't say that for the overdrives and distortion amps (switch set to Live, Setup ComboAmp, full/preamp)

No matter how i boost the treble and presence, it's still like a blanket..

Until i throw in a Graphic EQ from FX1, boost the 1k-2.2KHz and everything starts to sound good, and i mean , really good!

Also played with unbalanced output to Line/Amp, got this feeling that Line seems better, but can't confirm on that yet..

So is there something not quite right here? as it's a real bummer here, i lose a FX1 with all the pedals just to EQ it right. Anyone has a similar situation and got away without the EQ (i'm thinking a external EQ pedal, but then no more all-in-one then)?

[Lution]

Going through my Tech 21 Power Engine, my HD500 in Studio/Direct mode so far sounds really good. I know these are different animals. You have a preamp where the PE is just clean power.

[kiki_90291]

There could be something funky going on, but you need to tell us more about your setup - what output setting do you have the HD400 on? How are you eq'ing the Tech 21? What guitar are you using? Have you tried running the HD400 into a full-range system (try your home stereo just to see if there's a difference).

[scolfax]

Hmm interesting. I'm either going to get a powered PA speaker or Power Engine for my HD500. Right now my Fender Pro Jr is not the best option.

[jrockbridge]

I'd be happy if an EQ model made my HD500 sound really good through my amps. Of course, the 500 has more DSP power, so I don't feel like using one EQ model is a hardship. As it stands, I don't like the crunch box models or amp models through my amp rigs. I like the reverbs, delays and volume swells in the loop or 4 CM. I need further testing to see if I'll be satisfied with the compressors and wah models.

[NickCormier]

Have you ever tried like other distortion preamps/pedals into the TM60 and liked that? Im just wondering, maybe the TM60 just can't get that kind of distortion sound you are looking for, therefor its that rather than the HD having issues..

The TM60 from what I read, is more of a jazzy/clean tone amp, thats its forte, rather than the Power Engine which works better with distortion.

[radix]

thanks for the feedback guys
i think i have tried all permutations of the HD400 setup i.e
->Live or studio switch
-> Setup Combo front/Amp,stack front/amp,
-> full/preamp modellings..

and always into the RETURN of the TM60.

i'll still need the EQ pedal(post) to be involved to get any no blanket and a full overdrive /distortion sound .

Lution,
i'm rather intrigued you are able to get a good sound with both studio and live mode, for my setup, it has to be in live mode..

KiKi
full range system yes, but thru a small monitor speaker, could not get enough bass response..

scolfax
that's why i am considering a full range PA just like you if this TM60 doesn;t work out...(more GAS)

jrock
i bought the HD400 (sold off a blackstar HT5) primarliy for the amps modelling, have already got a M13 for effects..think we both need to tweak further..why not you try in the loop and throw in a grapic EQ post...

Nick
i am thinking i'm going into the loop return rather than the front, so it should be kinda clean boost as well, probably the same IC as the Power Engine even...unless i'm wrong..ha



so do i really need a full range PA speakers (now where's the shop that sells the behringer stuff , cheap skate i know, but hope it works )

[radix]

will this do?
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products...#documentation

[alp]

Originally Posted by radix

Nick
i am thinking i'm going into the loop return rather than the front, so it should be kinda clean boost as well, probably the same IC as the Power Engine even...unless i'm wrong..ha



so do i really need a full range PA speakers (now where's the shop that sells the behringer stuff , cheap skate i know, but hope it works )

Effects loop return on the TM60 is A LOT DIFFERENT sounding than going straight in to PE60. I also read many times that "both use the same power amp and speaker, so its same, ..etc". Believe me, I own both TM60 and PE60 for years. Loop return on the TM60 has a lot of its own color / flavor, that is why you feel the blanket on the speaker. On the other hand, PE60 is a lot more neutral in comparison.

In your situation I would keep the amp modelling for recording or going straight into PA and just use the effects with TM60. I have an M13 and TM60 coupled with it sounds great in many ways.

EDIT: I would also try going into the loop return on TM60 with the Amp sims turned ON but Cab/Mic sims turned OFF. That may work well on certain amp models on Pod HD, probably the ones would make a good couple with an open back 1X12 combo design...

[radix]

Originally Posted by alp

Effects loop return on the TM60 is A LOT DIFFERENT sounding than going straight in to PE60. I also read many times that "both use the same power amp and speaker, so its same, ..etc". Believe me, I own both TM60 and PE60 for years. Loop return on the TM60 has a lot of its own color / flavor, that is why you feel the blanket on the speaker. On the other hand, PE60 is a lot more neutral in comparison.

In your situation I would keep the amp modelling for recording or going straight into PA and just use the effects with TM60. I have an M13 and TM60 coupled with it sounds great in many ways.

EDIT: I would also try going into the loop return on TM60 with the Amp sims turned ON but Cab/Mic sims turned OFF. That may work well on certain amp models on Pod HD, probably the ones would make a good couple with an open back 1X12 combo design...

Hi Alp
thanks for the great advice man
think you explained it very well... hmm..so TM60's loop is not as clean as i thought..

well, the HD400 CANNOT turn off the Cab sims, Mic sims yes.(only the HD500 can)

i knew this before i got it, but i was trying to take a chance that it might work well enough..but the blanket thing is well, rather intolerable.. or i would need to put a external EQ pedal, get a FR actives speakers.. either way.. more money need to be spent...

well, just wish it was something can be fixed on the HD400 directly..hmmm

[alp]

Originally Posted by radix

well, the HD400 CANNOT turn off the Cab sims, Mic sims yes.(only the HD500 can)

Well.. i am shocked actually.. are you sure about that? Cab sims can be turned on/off from beginning of the first Pods ever as well as every digital amp modeler from any brand known to men (at least this man). I don't get the point of Mic sims are switchable on/off but Cab sims are not ! ..? Is it really the way it is on HD400? Honestly i doubt about that...

On the other hand, if it is that way, I am sure you can still get great sounds by your existing setup. In my experience some drive models works very nice in front of TM60's clean channel. Even, sometimes i get really good results by stacking two drive models going simultaneously. I guess you can have 4 simultaneous effects available on HD400 (same on M13) that would be enough for most things actually. My point is make sure to experiment with just effects without amp sims with your existing amp. You may really like what you already have that way.

[guitarnet70]

From the HD400 Advanced User Guide:

"LIVE Mode: In this mode, the analog outputs are fed a signal which includes your selected Amp and specially voiced “Live” Cab version (without a Mic model) which is suited for direct input to an external guitar amp. All active FX models are applied as well. When in LIVE Mode, there are also additional options found in the SETUP menu to allow you to choose the type of amp you are connecting to"

Otherwise you can select the Preamp version of the models, excluding poweramp, cab and mic

[scolfax]

Originally Posted by radix

will this do?
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products...#documentation

Do you need a mixer with these or do you just go straight from the HD to the speakers?

[guitarnet70]

Straight in

[Will Chen]

I'm pretty sure the speaker modeling circuit of the TM60 is after the effects return and non defeatable. This is the reason the TM60 sounds so consistent from its speaker or run direct. You absolutely must turn off all cabinet modeling when running a modeler into the TM60 return.