Fuchs ODS 30 vs ODS 50

[mact]

Hi there,
I am at the moment contemplating buying either a Fuchs ODS 30 or ODS 50 and wanted to ask the collective experience around here about some differences:
- I am playing mainly Blues and Jazz and would definitely need a clean channel. What is the clean volume that the ODS 30 can produce? How does this compare e.g. to the clean channel of a Mesa Mark III Super Sixty or to a Silverface Super Reverb? Is it possible to hold up to a drummer without getting too easily into power amp saturation?
- On the other hand: Do I need to get power amp clipping for getting the overdrive channel to sing?
- How important is the power stage of these amps for the sound? The ODS come with a variety of tubes types, 6V6 and 6L6, are they very different?
- My Mark III has a nice singing sound, as long as I can keep it at really (too) high volume, when I turn it down it looses most of its smoothness. How does the Fuchs behave at moderate levels?
- What other differences should I look for?
Any information would be highly appreciated,
thanks a lot,
mact

[FrankW]

Bump.
I'd like to know, too.

[radialaced]

I have a Fender Concert ODS mod. It's 50 watts. It has all the options, Pentode, Triode, Studio Power, Dampening, 4 button footswitch, loop, verb, etc.

This amp can play as soft as you want. The master is so great on this amp I can play it with the family sleeping.

When I crank it, it's louder than my Super.

I hope I never have to part with this amp.

Recently I had the pleasure to listen to Scott Lerner jam with a good friend of mine Jeff Cox. Talk about two monsters in the same room at one time....I barely played at all....They were in a different league.

Anyway Scott's ODS 30 SLX sounded so rich and thick. To my ears it is the best sounding ODS type amp around. I would like to have an ODS30 SLX in a 1x12 combo because it would be 20 lbs lighter than mine, plus it sounds a little richer and complex than mine.

Tonewise my ODS was a little below Scott's ODS30, but well above Jeff's Lonestar for smooth rich overdrive, (sorry Jeff). We also felt the Kendrick Brownframe in my amp wasn't helping the amp very much, ( I have a Wizard on order).

BTW, the ODS30 is way loud. There shouldn't be any concerns about it being loud enough unless your band is VERY loud.

RAd

[BobbyRay]

I have an ODS 30 that Scott has tweaked, and it has plenty of power! To put it in perspective, I was playing a Clark Tyger 35watt Tweed Bandmaster clone, at about full volume to keep up with my drummer (A carpenter by trade who plays Maple DW's=LOUD)! The ODS 30 with 2X12 Tonespotters running 4 6V6's is keeping up nicely with more volume on tap. I'm running it at just under 12:00 on the Master...Gain also just under 12, EQ to taste, Input (od) about 10:00, output (od) 2:00, brights on, deep off, rock/jazz set to rock!

The nice thing for me with the 30 is the cathode bias, for a slightly spongier feel, that works very well with my playing style. Still very articulate, with beautiful harmonic complexity on the cleans. Real nice bounce on the clean side, and the clean when pushed melts into very nice overdrive. Pushed meaning, gain boost (EQ bypassed) and a very hot guitar signal when using the above settings.

And I must rave about how much I like the SLX'd version! It took me from saying great amp, to saying best amp I've owned. Hats off to Andy Fuchs, and Scott Lerner for his tweakage!

Hope that helped...Maybe someone else can chime in whjo has experience with both the 30 and the 50.

[BobbyRay]

One more thing...If you look at a head and cabinet setup...whatever you do stay away from Vintage 30's! Nice speakers to be sure with the right amp, but with the Fuchs they are not cool! They nearly ruined my impression of the amp. Tonespotters on the other hand...

[radialaced]

Originally posted by BobbyRay
One more thing...If you look at a head and cabinet setup...whatever you do stay away from Vintage 30's! Nice speakers to be sure with the right amp, but with the Fuchs they are not cool! They nearly ruined my impression of the amp. Tonespotters on the other hand...

Funny, I thought the Wizard was a cross between a V30 and a G12h. And is putting them in all his amps now. And I have a Wizard on order....wish me luck.

[BobbyRay]

The Wizard can't sound much like a Vintage 30, because Scott had the same experience I did with the Vintage 30's and loves the Wizard.

The vinatage 30's had a very unpleasant thing going on. Kinda cranky sounding. On the other hand, I liked them in a closed 4X12 with a Marshall. They worked great in that application! You'll love the Wizard. The reviews I've read say it is very BIG sounding, compared to the brighter Tonespotter. And the 2 Tonespotters I'm using sound pretty large.

Ah...Fuchs is good stuff!

[radialaced]

Originally posted by BobbyRay
The Wizard can't sound much like a Vintage 30, because Scott had the same experience I did with the Vintage 30's and loves the Wizard.

The vinatage 30's had a very unpleasant thing going on. Kinda cranky sounding. On the other hand, I liked them in a closed 4X12 with a Marshall. They worked great in that application! You'll love the Wizard. The reviews I've read say it is very BIG sounding, compared to the brighter Tonespotter. And the 2 Tonespotters I'm using sound pretty large.

Ah...Fuchs is good stuff!

phew! that's a relief

[danel59]

I have the ODS 30 Artist and hopefully soon have the SLX mods added. At first when playing with a band all I had was a Traynor single 12 closed back 12 with Vintage 30 and sometimes I felt that I needed more headroom in the clean channel also I new there had to be an improvement in the speaker department. So I ended up with a THD 2 x 12 and I'm totally in love now it seems like I have more headroom and better tone and can't wait to get the SLX mods

[mact]

Hello all,
What type of music are you using your Fuchs for? Clean guitar as in REALLY clean or slightly dirty?
Hmmm... perhaps the difference in 30 vs. 50 watt is not that much....
Decisions, decisions.....;o)
Anyway, thanks a lot for the reponses!

[scottl]

Originally posted by mact
Hello all,
What type of music are you using your Fuchs for? Clean guitar as in REALLY clean or slightly dirty?
Hmmm... perhaps the difference in 30 vs. 50 watt is not that much....
Decisions, decisions.....;o)
Anyway, thanks a lot for the reponses!

There is a big feel and headroom difference between the 30 and 50. The 30 is cathode biased and runs 20% less voltage to the output tube plates. It has a softer feel and is squishier. The clean channel does not have as much clean punch since the output section will break up sooner, as well as squish more.

Having said that, the 30 has a decent amount of headroom. I would suggest the 50 if you need that big chimey clean thing.

Lastly, as Bobby can attest to, the newest SLX upgrades definately add a smoother transition to breakup and add a whole extra level of complexity and articulation.

Scott

[mact]

... I get the feeling that the best thing would be to test both amps in the band context.... unfortunately this is definitely no option. I will have to drive a couple of hundred km just to test one.

Another try: So the 50 watts might be more supporting a SRV and Kenny Wayne Sheppard clean taste, while the 30 Watt version leans more toward a softer "Carlton" clean?
Kathode biased means the ODS 30 amp does not need biasing after a tube change?
Sorry for all these stupid questions and thanks for the patience!

[scottl]

Originally posted by mact
... I get the feeling that the best thing would be to test both amps in the band context.... unfortunately this is definitely no option. I will have to drive a couple of hundred km just to test one.

Another try: So the 50 watts might be more supporting a SRV and Kenny Wayne Sheppard clean taste, while the 30 Watt version leans more toward a softer "Carlton" clean?
Kathode biased means the ODS 30 amp does not need biasing after a tube change?
Sorry for all these stupid questions and thanks for the patience!

You can freely swap tubes in the cathode 30. No rebias needed. Both amps can do the Carlton thing.... Here are a few clips of my 50. Pretty smooth!

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/mayc...lingReggae.MP3

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/mayc...idcapLoop1.MP3

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/mayc...ilesUltra5.MP3 (Wizard speaker and darker tone)

As you can hear, the 50 is plenty smooth! The 30 is really smooth too, just has a different midrange. Hard to describe the difference. Some of it is feel.

[aeolian]

If you're worried about clean headroom, you can always turn the 50 down. I'm using an ODS100 and very rarely do I get to turn it up anywhere near where it wants to be. But it still sings just fine at low volumes. You don't need to be banging on the output tubes unless you want a lot of that squishy compressed thing on fairly clean crunch tones. For moderate to high gain tones, the front end works just fine. And if you want that Super Reverb like volume and sparkley cleans, you'll want the 6L6 tightness and headroom.

[DerekMinnich]

How fendery are the cleans on the 30 and 50? Of course the 50 is going to have more headroom as others have said in this thread. But can it get in Robin Ford 'Oasis' type territory? To me, THAT is a clean tone. Super clear, articulate, bouncy, etc. Can it get that vibe (I know thats a dumble and they are different amplifiers, but from the same type of camp, but its just a good reference for a killer clean tone). Which is more appropriate for that type of clean tone, the 30 or the 50(If either at all)?

I absolutely love the overdriven tones also, I've always loved your driven tones Scott, and was really impressed with the high gain Steelbender clip with the 335....showed me another side of the amp. I also know those are 50 watt clips, but is the 30 watt that far off from that?