Rant about sound guy at gig

[goodsal]

I played a gig recently where after the first song, the sound guy comes up on stage and whispers to me "dude, you're way too loud, you're drowning everybody out, you need to turn down". I'm happy to get the advice as I want to make sure we're mixed properly.

I just watched the video of our performance, and it was actually the other guitarist who was too loud, so by telling me to turn down he made the mix even worse. For the rest of the show I could barely be heard and he never corrected it in the mix.

I'm really pissed off, because I think I played really well that night.

[Twangmaster]

some people say the "suck tone", but that's one reason why I use a wireless rig. I make sure I walk out and take a listen for myself.

[DC1]

Walk out and listen for yourself during soundcheck.

Also, give it a few tunes for things to gel.

Remember too that with the house full, everything changes.

Oh, and you will hear how wrong your tone is from out there!

Even if you don't have a wireless, go as far into the house as you can, and listen to the band and your role in it.


dc

[Strat]

Wireless... They audience could not care less about your TONE.

Originally Posted by Twangmaster

some people say the "suck tone", but that's one reason why I use a wireless rig. I make sure I walk out and take a listen for myself.

[offbeat]

Where did the audio come from on your video? From the camera mic, or a line out of the mix board?
The guitar player for my brother's band, years ago, was always painfully loud. One night he decided to make a tape from the board mix. To his surprise, and no one else's, his guitar was not audible on the board tape... he was already so loud in the room there was no reason to put him in the mix.
I'm active on both sides of the board, and I've seen many good bands sound terrible out front because of one or two band members who can't control their volume.
If the sound guy really couldn't tell the difference between your guitar and the other guy's, he needs to open up his ears a little.
I would agree with the other posters who recommended walking out front to check the mix.

[RackCrew]

The smaller the gig the more common this is. You should probably thank the sound guy for telling you you were too loud.

Pretty simple rule, the louder you are compared to the rest of the band the less you will be heard in the actul console mix. The smaller the gig the less the console mix reflects the actual sound in the venue.

[buddaman71]

I posted a long thread about this awhile back. I know it's a tough job to mix FOH. I design large AV systems for a living and have been mixing live and in the studio for over 20 years, so I know when I'm too loud and when I'm freakin inaudible out front. (I have a very good sounding digital wireless and ALWAYS stroll out front during gigs to spot check tone and mix.)

I always try to give the benefit of the doubt, but it never ceases to amaze me how many sound guys think the measure of their work is solely defined by whether or not their subs are capable of sonically vaporizing squirrels from 20 meters.

[offbeat]

Originally Posted by buddaman71

I always try to give the benefit of the doubt, but it never ceases to amaze me how many sound guys think the measure of their work is solely defined by whether or not their subs are capable of sonically vaporizing squirrels from 20 meters.

I agree. Most rookie sound guys use gray squirrels, but it's common knowledge that red squirrels are a better test of the sub-20hz frequencies.

[cram]

another trick during sound check is to loop a couple chords/riff and have the other guys play on it. If your signal is at playing volume, you can walk around the place and hear the mix and perhaps identify some of the beamy spots.

It's not always an option, but it has helped me.

[74vibrolux]

I actually got to tell a sound guy to turn down last week! We're an Americana type band with some mostly acoustic based instrumentation (acoustic guitar, banjo, accordion, etc). There's a club in town that has mostly hard rock and metal, but one night a week they have rockabilly and roots rock bands. We get up on stage to soundcheck and he starts running the drums and they sound thunderous. Then he gets to guitar and its blaring. My acoustic was insanely loud. It was absolutely hilarious. This is the only band I've ever been in where I don't wear earplugs. We've worked hard to keep low stage volume so we can play with dynamics in songs. Anyway ... we finally told the guy that "this isn't working out" and that he needed to turn us WAY down. I'd say he cut monitor volume by about 70% ... and it was still pretty loud. It was nice to be able to use the "you're gonna have to turn down some" on the soundguy.

Back on topic, though. This is one of the reasons I love my little Pro Jr's so much these days. I get to crank it and no one ever tells me to turn down.

[GlueMan]

Originally Posted by RackCrew

The smaller the gig the more common this is. You should probably thank the sound guy for telling you you were too loud.

So you only read half the post - he said it turned out to be the other guitarist that was too loud.

[FenderBigot]

There's been quite a few threads about this around here over the last few years. What it really comes down to what is important to the band and/or to the player. If you are recording from a portable unit that is out in front, the room mix is more important. If you're recording off the board then clearly the board mix is more important. If you as a player feel your tone "sweet spot" is a certain volume on your amp, then play that regardless of what the soundman says. The majority of smaller clubs don't NEED the guitar amps to be mic'd if you like loud stage volume and are using 40/50+ watt amps. But if you're using a 12/15/18 watt amp and the room is 150+ folks then you're not going to be heard.

My point is this... you can work with a sound guy or you can have him work for you. It's an ongoing problem. Crank your stage volume and he'll bring up the rest of the band to match nine times out of ten, but it's that one time out of ten the band will just sound like crap, so keep that in mind.

On a side note... in my experience, the sound guy that usually busts your balls about being too loud is normally a musician without a gig. He is most likely bummed that you're playing out and he's not. Those are the ones the will ride your ass about stage volume. Down here, a really good sound guy makes more for a night then each band member does... because they bust their ass loading in and setting up the big gear and then mixing you all night and then breaking it down and loading out. I'm OK with that when I walk in with my 1x12 combo, two guitars and a pedalboard case that sets up in less than five minutes.

[alexanderplatz]

Originally Posted by cram

another trick during sound check is to loop a couple chords/riff and have the other guys play on it. If your signal is at playing volume, you can walk around the place and hear the mix and perhaps identify some of the beamy spots.

That is a great idea.

[cram]

Originally Posted by alexanderplatz

That is a great idea.

I first heard of it from a scott henderson interview. Apparently he does it a lot and is the one of the reasons he keeps a looping delay pedal on the board. It's actually why I keep my boss dd7 . I think it's nearly the least expensive delay with a loop ability.

[offbeat]

Originally Posted by FenderBigot

What it really comes down to what is important to the band and/or to the player..... If you as a player feel your tone "sweet spot" is a certain volume on your amp, then play that regardless of what the soundman says..... Crank your stage volume and he'll bring up the rest of the band to match nine times out of ten, but it's that one time out of ten the band will just sound like crap, so keep that in mind.

Sorry... as a guitarist, musician and sound guy, there are lot of red flags in your post.

What is important is the audience.

If your tonal 'sweet spot' is too loud for the gig, you brought the wrong tool for the job.

If you're too loud, and the sound guy brings everyone else up to your level, now the entire band is WAY TOO LOUD.

If you need an adrenalin rush from volume, do that at home. Live, you get your adrenalin rush from the audience.
Do NOT confuse volume with intensity.